But who knows if they were intended to be way back in Episode Three. I have the weirdest feeling they're just making it up as they go along and chucked the black badge in as a merchandising tool.
Ranks in STAR TREK
- Thread starter dswynne1
- Start date
I get the impression that Discovery, the spore drive and Lorca were all originally supposed to be a S31 mission from top to bottom. When Fuller was dumped the whole direction changed to the mirror universe concept but the black badge scenes were already in the can.
Oh, they almost certainly are making it up as they go along. Fuller's dismissal has of course thrown a lot of pieces in the air and the writers are pulling shit together where they can. That being said, I'm sure the Black Badges were always going to turn out to be Section 31. Yes, it doesn't make sense for a secret black ops agency to advertise themselves thusly, but it fits with what we've seen in this show already.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Black Badges were for MACO style security Officers.
Makes more sense to me that Section 31 might co-opt personnel and resources from other departments (we know from both Deep Space Nine and Enterprise that they use both Starfleet Intelligence and Starfleet Internal Affairs as a cover (which are probably Staff Corps positions) in addition to at least one civilian agency (Department of Cartography), so the "black badges" could easily have other meanings to Starfleet personnel but a civilian issued with such is probably going to be part of Section 31 (a real world example might be a sailor assigned to a covert op would be DEVGRU or possibly Seebees but a civilian would be CIA. Both wear the same non or sanitized uniform but mean different things in context).
Section 31 generally doesn't overtly announce their presence unless they want to.
And most of the time, they don't exist.
Other than wearing all Black Leather, which is just a fashion choice.
I've seen plenty of people wear All Black Leather IRL, it's just part of their style when trapesing about society.
And most of the time, they don't exist.
Other than wearing all Black Leather, which is just a fashion choice.
I've seen plenty of people wear All Black Leather IRL, it's just part of their style when trapesing about society.
In the RW, a "Fleet Captain" would be title held by the chief of staff (and deputy?) of a flag officer, particuarly one in command of a fleet, so s/he has mostly delegated authority to act on behalf of the flag officer. In the case of Chris Pike, it was probably Vice Admiral Fitzpatrick (from Trouble with Tribbles), although Westervliet or James Komack are possiblities. Ben Sisko would also be Ross' Fleet Captain during the Dominion War.
"Commodore" however is either the title of a senior Captain acting as a tactical commander of a joint operation or task force, or the rank of a junior Flag Officer in a staff officer or strategic commnander with independent authority to act.
"Commodore" however is either the title of a senior Captain acting as a tactical commander of a joint operation or task force, or the rank of a junior Flag Officer in a staff officer or strategic commnander with independent authority to act.
Section 31 is a highly classified clandestine organisation with no headquarters and isn't officially recognised by Starfleet Command, why would they have their own insignia?
I agree with this. I imagine that they don't have uniforms any more than the CIA or the State Department does.
During their first appearance in DS9, Sloane and two 'goons' were shown in the same black outfit, though how many people out there wear the same sort of suit to work on any given day? They'd be the 24th century equivalent to men in black, dressed in a manner to blend in.
Do we know for a fact the section 31 doesn't have a head quarters ? They do have at least one ship because of the holodeck they texted Bashir on so I'd go with their head quarters being a mobile one like a clocked ship.
I do have to agree that the Uniforms and black arrow head doesn't make any sense and Discovery only did it to look cool IMO, OH check it out a black Starfleet emblem!! and why would they even use the Arrow head design at all when they aren't Starfleet wouldn't they just have their own design? one that no one would know what it is.
I do have to agree that the Uniforms and black arrow head doesn't make any sense and Discovery only did it to look cool IMO, OH check it out a black Starfleet emblem!! and why would they even use the Arrow head design at all when they aren't Starfleet wouldn't they just have their own design? one that no one would know what it is.
Exactly. They could have been waiters in Ten Forward on TNG for all we know. The modern-day equivalent would be black suits and ties, just as you said.
Yup. A clear sign of the aimlessness of the production. And their failure to use common sense. In this same area, think of people squinting to see the micropips on the delta to determine whether they need to pay attention to what you're saying or not. Argh.
...I'm pretty sure any phrase beginning with "Section 31 is..." is false.
While the "organization" no doubt has always been sixteen steps short of official, it seems likely its status and nature would undergo constant change, with its influence waxing and waning as general political fortunes as well as the personal ones of the self-appointed "agents" change. At times, it would be a de facto office within SF Intel, with half the staff knowing who's one of Them and which room is reserved for their secret staff meetings on Tuesdays. At other times, it would be three men in armchairs, talking about the time when they held power over empires and commandeered starships. And plenty of times, it would be four separate but parallel groups of shady characters, from street thugs to eccentric ex-agents, who all find it pretty cool to be associated with the name Section 31 they found from some old documents.
The street thugs probably would wear black badges as official signs of their insanity. And the real Men In Black would operate behind the backs of the fools, enjoying extra deniability from the silliness of the blackbadgers. Although they, too, might occasionally masquerade as futuro-Gestapo to discredit possible eyewitnesses.
We just need to recognize the current variety of S31 and realize it has little or nothing to do with the other appearances of people flocking under the designation. Is the agent visiting Emperor Philippatine a fool or a clever double bluffer? Does he represent SF Intel interests, or Romulan ones, or those of the highest bidder? Does he have influence, ambition or delusions?
Time will tell. And then time will outdate what was told, so that the next Man In Black carrying a sticking badge and speaking of the Original Charter is most probably working at cross purposes to his predecessor.
Timo Saloniemi
While the "organization" no doubt has always been sixteen steps short of official, it seems likely its status and nature would undergo constant change, with its influence waxing and waning as general political fortunes as well as the personal ones of the self-appointed "agents" change. At times, it would be a de facto office within SF Intel, with half the staff knowing who's one of Them and which room is reserved for their secret staff meetings on Tuesdays. At other times, it would be three men in armchairs, talking about the time when they held power over empires and commandeered starships. And plenty of times, it would be four separate but parallel groups of shady characters, from street thugs to eccentric ex-agents, who all find it pretty cool to be associated with the name Section 31 they found from some old documents.
The street thugs probably would wear black badges as official signs of their insanity. And the real Men In Black would operate behind the backs of the fools, enjoying extra deniability from the silliness of the blackbadgers. Although they, too, might occasionally masquerade as futuro-Gestapo to discredit possible eyewitnesses.
We just need to recognize the current variety of S31 and realize it has little or nothing to do with the other appearances of people flocking under the designation. Is the agent visiting Emperor Philippatine a fool or a clever double bluffer? Does he represent SF Intel interests, or Romulan ones, or those of the highest bidder? Does he have influence, ambition or delusions?
Time will tell. And then time will outdate what was told, so that the next Man In Black carrying a sticking badge and speaking of the Original Charter is most probably working at cross purposes to his predecessor.
Timo Saloniemi
So CBS can make money off merchandising.
Because Discovery writers are terrible .
The waiters and waitress in Ten Forward are all section 31.
Waitress: "What's wrong Commander Riker?"
Riker: "You don't want to hear it."
Waitress: "Try me."
Riker: "Well, we on this top secret mission to the Adell sector."
Waitress: "Yes, go on."
Riker: "And as it turns out ..."
Seriously, what's the appeal for writers dirtying up the Federation???
It's like that asshole neighbor who suspects the nice resident next door are not who they claim to be. Keep looking, and looking for things that are not there until the neighbor starts conjuring things up to cast a dark perspective of these nice people. When the nice people find solace to defending themselves it's then when the neighbor claims, "See! I told you they were not who they claim to be!"
Ira Behr's DS9 continues to sh*t stain Star Trek; seems none of these mini-brain producers can get their heads out of the toilet to write positive storytelling. You know, there was a time Trek wasn't this insidious place where it needed Black Op guerrillas to solve problems.
As long as a notion of "Section 31" continues to shroud creative bankruptcy; Star Trek is truly dead.
It's like that asshole neighbor who suspects the nice resident next door are not who they claim to be. Keep looking, and looking for things that are not there until the neighbor starts conjuring things up to cast a dark perspective of these nice people. When the nice people find solace to defending themselves it's then when the neighbor claims, "See! I told you they were not who they claim to be!"
Ira Behr's DS9 continues to sh*t stain Star Trek; seems none of these mini-brain producers can get their heads out of the toilet to write positive storytelling. You know, there was a time Trek wasn't this insidious place where it needed Black Op guerrillas to solve problems.
As long as a notion of "Section 31" continues to shroud creative bankruptcy; Star Trek is truly dead.
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