In universe... Why would Romulans need Klingon ship designs?

[Dukhat]

Wasn't the Romulan Bird of Prey originally meant to be a salvaged or ripped-off Earth design from the Romulan War era? That and the "simple impulse" drive makes it pretty clear that they were in dire need of modern vessels (at least in the pre-retcons TOS universe)

It’s my understanding that based on the initial script, the Romulans stole Starfleet designs, and the BoP was supposed to resemble the Enterprise’s saucer section. Since it had no warp nacelles, it would have only had impulse drive (hence Scotty’s comment about simple impulse.)

 

[Christopher]

^But the Romulan BoP did have nacelles that looked a lot like the Enterprise's. I think the concepts were enough in flux that the "simple impulse" line can't be taken too literally. After all, that same scene had Kirk handing Spock a hardcover book of comet tables to consult.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The Romulan Bird of Prey blueprints by McMaster, Mandel, Upton, Maynard, et al addressed the issue of impulse by having the power plant incapable of supporting the warp drive, plasma weapon, and invisibility cloak simultaneously.

"6. Power is provided by twin matter-antimatter generators. Because of the tremendous power requirements of the warp engines, invisibility cloak, and the plasma weapon, they cannot be used simultaneously. When the ship is invisible, it must move under impulse power. At warp speed the weapon can be fired without power accumulators. To fire full power it has to go sublight. It can slowly store power in accumlators while invisible but must become visible to fire. "​

http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/romulan-bird-of-prey.php

 

[Dukhat]

^But the Romulan BoP did have nacelles that looked a lot like the Enterprise's. I think the concepts were enough in flux that the "simple impulse" line can't be taken too literally. After all, that same scene had Kirk handing Spock a hardcover book of comet tables to consult.

It’s also my understanding that by the time Wah Chang built the model, the newer script had deleted the line about the Romulans having stolen the design, so he was unaware of the original intent for the BoP to be just a saucer.

 

[Timo]

Of course, none of the speed/travel time issues in the episode would be alleviated in the slightest by the assumption that cloaking deprives the ship of warp. But things might make better overall sense if cloaking did deprive the ship of the ability to use the plasma belcher, and vice versa, due to pure power consumption concerns.

The idea that Scotty is in the wrong in this episode is a dramatically satisfactory one, regardless of whether this is due to power allocation issues, or due to the Romulans already using unrecognizable quantum singularity power sources, or whatnot. Surely an encounter with a strange enemy is dramatically enhanced if our heroes have misconceptions about them? But not everybody is comfortable with the idea that a hero could be mistaken (and not be corrected/chastised on the issue on screen).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Christopher]

I think there are a number of inconsistencies between "Balance of Terror"'s script and its execution. For instance, the script describes the Neutral Zone as surrounding the twin planets Romulus and Remus -- as if it's just a single star system that's interdicted, which is consistent with the idea that they only have impulse drive -- but the map shown onscreen depicts it as a border with a "Romulan Star Empire" containing numerous systems, which requires the Romulans to be a warp-capable power. So I don't think everyone involved in the writing and production of the episode was on the same page.

 

[Tenacity]

To fire full power it has to go sublight

So, the plasma ball was fired at sublight speed, but then had the ability to accerate to warp speed in order to chase the Enteoprise at emergency warp?

This inplies that the plasma ball isn'y merely a ball of plasma traveling at launch speed, but includes it own warp drive mechinism.

Some where.

 

[Timo]

Or is propelled by a warp field erected by the launching vessel, an act that incidentally prevents the ship from using her warp engines for warp travel simultaneously.

I rather doubt the map of "Balance of Terror" was deliberately intended to show a great manty stars within the RNZ confines. The dots on the background are just that - background. Even a map of Sol out to the orbit of Mars would have such dots on the background, representing a quintillionth of the dots there actually are behind that tiny area of space...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Christopher]

I see the plasma torpedo as a sort of self-sustaining semi-stable warp bubble with only plasma inside it. Most warp drives generate warp bubbles around them, but this weapon somehow "blows" warp bubbles separate from itself.

Similarly, the TNG Tech Manual said that photon torpedoes don't have warp drives, but have systems that can "drag" a bit of a starship's warp field along with them, like separating a smaller bubble from the main one.

 

[Timo]

Which is a pretty silly thing to say when the fastest recorded warp speed by a photon torpedo (and a gutted one at that) was after it was launched from a stationary starbase that explicitly had no starship assets around...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[J.T.B.]

Not to be pedantic, but the answer is because The Enemy Below depicted a one-on-one engagement, and changing so fundamental an element would have upset the process of adapting The Enemy Below blow-by-blow into "Balance of Terror," which is basically what Paul Schneider did.

Well so much for "in-universe"!

 

[Phaser Two]

Anyone ever actually seen The Enemy Below? There are two similarities beyond the surface-sub conflict setting. The destroyer makes itself look like a sensor echo and the German captain wearies of the war and confides it to an old friend. That’s it.

 

[Herbert]

Well so much for "in-universe"!

Yeah, but at some point trying to account for everything "in universe" becomes farcical and ultimately pointless. There are some prime examples in this thread.
On the other hand, I know there isn't much more left to talk about regarding a 50 year old TV show so that tends to give birth to fevered head cannon explanations for stuff.

 

[Herbert]

Anyone ever actually seen The Enemy Below? There are two similarities beyond the surface-sub conflict setting. The destroyer makes itself look like a sensor echo and the German captain wearies of the war and confides it to an old friend. That’s it.

And that's not enough? It seems pretty obvious that the Star Trek episode was inspired greatly by the movie.

 

[Phaser Two]

And that's not enough? It seems pretty obvious that the Star Trek episode was inspired greatly by the movie.

Enh. Whenever it's brought up here people act like it's a carbon copy. It isn't.

 

[Herbert]

Enh. Whenever it's brought up here people act like it's a carbon copy. It isn't.

This is true. It's not a carbon copy but it's similar enough to invite such comparisons.

 

[J.T.B.]

Yeah, but at some point trying to account for everything "in universe" becomes farcical and ultimately pointless. There are some prime examples in this thread.

I know but I've talked about The Enemy Below many, many times as well.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I know but I've talked about The Enemy Below many, many times as well.

There isn't any explanation to be found in the episode as far as I can tell. Any explanation there is would be retroactively applied, IMO, and would be anything but the only possible explanation. The episode just wasn't conceived to address the question.

 

[J.T.B.]

There isn't any explanation to be found in the episode as far as I can tell. Any explanation there is would be retroactively applied, IMO, and would be anything but the only possible explanation. The episode just wasn't conceived to address the question.

Right. But if we're speculating on a reason the Klingon battle cruisers would be preferable "in-universe" to the BoP, and guessing that the BoP was found wanting, the possibility of employing cloaked Birds of Prey in "packs" rather than alone seems like a reasonable question. It seems like an obvious way of increasing their fighting power, in other words, as an alternative to going with the Klingon designs. It's just another avenue of speculation, of course.

 

[Christopher]

Right. But if we're speculating on a reason the Klingon battle cruisers would be preferable "in-universe" to the BoP, and guessing that the BoP was found wanting, the possibility of employing cloaked Birds of Prey in "packs" rather than alone seems like a reasonable question. It seems like an obvious way of increasing their fighting power, in other words, as an alternative to going with the Klingon designs. It's just another avenue of speculation, of course.

Well, getting Klingon ships may not have been the sole or primary reason for the alliance, but just one aspect of it. The political and strategic benefits of forming a united front against the Federation would probably be the main appeal of an alliance, along with normalized trade. Technology exchange would just be one aspect of that.

Then there's the IDW/John Byrne version where the alliance is driven by more devious goals on the Klingons' part and puts the Romulans at a disadvantage. I don't recall if it's addressed specifically, but the Klingons may have insisted "No, our ships are better, you have to use them."