Too Much Data Saving The Day?

[Twilight Phoenix]

Data doesn't protect himself or avoid being dismantled by some insane (pseudo) scientist because, like any of us he's afraid of suffering or dying, he does it because his programs tell him to. That's the only motivation behind any of Data's deeds. That's why at the turn of a switch, he can become evil and do terrible things like torture Jeordi for example. That's also the reason why he's more often than the rest of the crew he's capable of keeping a cooler head, he has no ego to assuage, no childhood trauma to overcome.

Even though I agree on the fact that Data's lack of human emotions and his computational understanding of the world make him cool-headed for sure, I don't agree with the simplistic approach about his behaviours ("it's only his program telling him to do it").
When compared to other fictional robots and androids (the first Asimov robots for instance), Data is far more complex and doesn't rely on just one basic algorithm.
If you think about his Ethics subroutine, it's a HUGE set of complex algorithms we'd have difficulties programming nowadays because of the massive number of variables and their interactions.
Now when you realize that he has a complex subroutine for basically everything, and that some subroutines are dependent on the others' results to get the appropriate "answer"...and that he's conscious of each calculation going on in his mind...He's definitely not just a "his program tells him so" kind of android. A proof of this is that there have been times when Data chose to go against what was logical and made an irrational decision ; like helping Geordi against Picard's orders in Interface.

Now it doesn't mean he doesn't rely on programs. He does. Like we do, since we're just machines of another kind (but that's another debate). Your example in Descent II is totally valid, Data was hacked by Lore and it wouldn't have happened if he'd been a human being instead of an android. But it's more complicated than just clicking a switch, you can't exactly make him "evil" that easily. I'm convinced the reason Lore managed to corrupt Data's computations is basically because they have the same OS architecture, so he knew exactly which files to block and which algorithms to stop. Harder job than just switching Data to an automatic "Nightmare mode" !
That being said...you can "program" a human being or any animal to be "evil" too. Most serial killers were raised in violence, humiliation, mistreatment, torture and abuse, by their parents. And many children in war zones are raised in a chaotic environment where they're trained to kill others on a daily basis. It's not like humans are immune to a certain form of programmation, unfortunately.

So TL ; DR : Data's mind sure relies on complex calculations, but that doesn't mean he's incapable of having his own decisions. He doesn't do things just because "his program tells him to".

 

[Discofan]

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Data rocked. Rick Berman, for all of his accomplishments, will be remembered for three things by me: killing Kirk, destroying the Enterprise-D and killing Data.

Three things:

1- Kirk was supposed to be dead at this point so more than simply Killing Kirk (IE bringing him back from the dead and then killing him (for good?)) Berman is guilty of not giving him a more appropriate death. Something more glorious (to talk like Kor).

2- I forgive him the destruction because it was spectacular.

3- Killing Data... this was the last movie with that team, so it wasn't much of a problem. For example when they bring back Deanna and Riker in "these are the voyages..." Data gets a couple of lines too.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Data is a machine that is in many respects superior to a human (greater processing speed, stronger, faster, less vulnerable to any number of outside factors, needs no life support, etc). So it would only be logical (from an 'in-universe' perspective) that he would be more often in a position to save the day than most other crewmembers.

THAT would have been a great movie idea after "First Contact" if Rick Berman had any. A film where there's a race of Data's fully engaged to stop the Borg threat as Picard and crew is in the middle of. The story could even have the sect of Hugh-Borg in the mix of the conflict. Sigh. It sure could've quench the thirsts of the blood lusting, ships exploding loving Deep Space 9ers.

The possibilities for TNG films wasted with Briar Patches and Bald headed clones --OH-- and retarded Borg plots to prevent Humans to achieve Warp Speed, and Kirk falling to his second death... off of a bridge. Ugh.

 

[at Quark's]

^ If Data really is as strong and fast as we see (suggested) in other episodes, realistically, of course, Data's capture by the Borg (see for example www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYJ9sbM0Hhoat 1:45) never should have happened. He simply would have grabbed the borg's hand immediately and broken or twisted it before they even got a chance to make him fall .

That, or we'd have to assume this scene was shown 'delayed' for our benefit (not likely, since he also has a chance to call to Picard and Picard still has time to see him disappear).

 

[Mojochi]

1- Kirk was supposed to be dead at this point

Bones isn't. Spock's still going strong, because of Vulcan longevity. Hell, Even Scotty made it out, by this time, & we actually don't know the fate of Chekov, Uhura, & Sulu. It's highly possible that all of the original final frontiersmen are alive when Kirk meets his astronomically unfitting end. I like to think they are.

 

[Discofan]

Bones isn't. Spock's still going strong, because of Vulcan longevity. Hell, Even Scotty made it out, by this time, & we actually don't know the fate of Chekov, Uhura, & Sulu. It's highly possible that all of the original final frontiersmen are alive when Kirk meets his astronomically unfitting end. I like to think they are.

Hell, Scott even thought that it was Kirk coming to save him even though he saw what happened to the section of the ship where he was supposed to be. It must be a side effect of prolonged transporter stasis: memory lapses.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It always seems to me Data's programming isn't strictly procedural. He's got some kind of neural network algorithm, and his brain has some ability to progressively rewire itself in a way that mimics the way human brains grow new connections between cells.

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

It always seems to me Data's programming isn't strictly procedural. He's got some kind of neural network algorithm, and his brain has some ability to progressively rewire itself in a way that mimics the way human brains grow new connections between cells.

I share this point of view. I'm convinced Data's OS architecture has some "basic kernel" that doesn't change much (like the wiring in our autonomous neural system), but that the rest is mostly some plastic neural network than can evolve with experiences. Algorithms that get re-written with time, subroutines being modified or even replaced to allow a smoother cognitive experience...Things like that.
Some content and routines may be accessible and fully operating only in certain situations, too. There is a bunch of Data fans (including myself) out there who are convinced Data's neural net actually procedes emotional inputs and outputs from the start, but that the Emotion Chip is necessary for a full, comprehensive experience of emotions. Mostly like a computer that automatically generates visual outputs but needs an approriate screen for the outputs to be properly displayed to the user.

 

[at Quark's]

^Data seems to display (a suppressed kind of) emotions, allright. It's just that he isn't apparently consciously experiencing them himself.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Maybe this is what a ‘positronic brain’ really is. Or, maybe that is the function that requires a brain to be ‘positronic’ in order to work correctly. The ability to fluidly rewire itself based on experience with no predetermined growth parameters.

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

^ This. And maybe the unconscious layers too. In Birthright I and Phantasms, Data's ability to dream (and the contents of his dreams) strongly suggests his positronic brain is working on an unconscious level as well.
Makes me want to read Asimov's Robot Dreams again !

 

[Mojochi]

I like to think Data's contraction issue is perceptual too. Somewhere he's programmed to think he's incapable of using contractions, & feeling emotions, but being that he's ultimately designed to be able to do both of those things, just like Lore, it happens now & then, at some level or another, as errant, unconsciously uttered contractions, or micro-emotions

 

[Discofan]

^ This. And maybe the unconscious layers too. In Birthright I and Phantasms, Data's ability to dream (and the contents of his dreams) strongly suggests his positronic brain is working on an unconscious level as well.
Makes me want to read Asimov's Robot Dreams again !

There's a difference though. Asimov's android robots were nearly indistinguishable from human beings. Daneel Olivaw passed for a human for millennia without anybody ever realizing that there was something wrong with him. We still don't know for certain if Bliss was a robot or a woman...

You couldn't mistake Data for a man for one minute!

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

There's a difference though. Asimov's android robots were nearly indistinguishable from human beings. Daneel Olivaw passed for a human for millennia without anybody ever realizing that there was something wrong with him. We still don't know for certain if Bliss was a robot or a woman...

You couldn't mistake Data for a man for one minute!

What Asimov books are you refering to ? I didn't read Foundation yet, neither Caves of Steel, so I may not catch your references here. I was thinking about Asimov's robots as depicted in his short stories (Robot Dreams, Liar ! , Little Lost Robot, Light Verse, Bicentennial Man....).
In those, the androids certainly wouldn't be mistaken for humans (except Andrew from Bicentennial Man in his transition toward humankind) as they still have that mechanical, metal appearance that make them look very different from humans - Andrew being an exception as he transitions to become more and more biological and life-like. So I'm a bit confused about how Data could look less human than those androids ? Or maybe you're talking about Asimov novels I didn't read yet.

Maybe it's because he was interpreted by a human actor and not some CGI animation, but I always imagined Data to be physically indistinguishable from humans or any humanoid life form (skintone and eye colour don't count - there are many different skin colours IRL and in the ST universe).

 

[Mojochi]

You couldn't mistake Data for a man for one minute!

If Lal had been allowed to mature, I bet you could, & Data as he appears in the All Good Things... future is all but human, except the skin tone, which is upgradable, as Lal is evidence of. You'd have to crack a Soong droid open to know it wasn't Human, kind of like that one episode where exactly that happened. If it hadn't been for one Soong android spotting it's own designs, no one would ever have known Julianna was an android, until an accident happened, & even Data was fooled for a while

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

^^^ Mojochi made excellent points. I didn't think about Juliana, but she was indeed indistinguishable from a human, at least to humans - if I remember well, Data realized she was a Soong type gynoid only because she blinked her eyes on a Fourier pattern. There's at least one other occurence of such a life-like Soong type android in the TNG novels (not saying more because I don't wanna spoil anyone).

 

[Mojochi]

^^^ Mojochi made excellent points. I didn't think about Juliana, but she was indeed indistinguishable from a human, at least to humans - if I remember well, Data realized she was a Soong type gynoid only because she blinked her eyes on a Fourier pattern. There's at least one other occurence of such a life-like Soong type android in the TNG novels (not saying more because I don't wanna spoil anyone).

He suspected her, but never came forward, until after the accident. The eye blinking pattern was the main giveaway, but he also questioned her ability to perfectly reproduce a musical performance. I imagine that, given time, more stuff would become noticeable to him... but only to him or others like him

 

[Discofan]

He suspected her, but never came forward, until after the accident. The eye blinking pattern was the main giveaway, but he also questioned her ability to perfectly reproduce a musical performance. I imagine that, given time, more stuff would become noticeable to him... but only to him or others like him

It's more than just a giveaway. The odds of a real person's blinking pattern following a Fourier function are zero, unless she does it on purpose, in which case she's simply crazy as a loon!
Seriously, you'd have to be insane to train yourself to constantly blink at a predictable time given that it's completely useless and no one will know it other than a robot or a detector designed for this intended purpose!

 

[Nyotarules]

12 episodes in a 174 episode series? No I don't think it was too much.

Data saves the day 7% of the time...if it was an exam he would fail miserably.

 

[Discofan]

Data saves the day 7% of the time...if it was an exam he would fail miserably.

Sure, that's 93% when someone else did. What was he doing? Sitting on his hands?