Spoilers Why do the same recurring characters implausibly keep popping up?

[urbandefault]

This is the story they're telling, and these are the characters involved.

In 14 episodes, Firefly featured Badger twice, and Niska twice. They visited Persephone at least twice. Reavers! Again? What's up with that?

Patience, people.

 

[The Overlord]

One of the odd elements of Discovery is how unlike most modern dramas, it's got a very, very small cast. I'm not just talking about the six (well, now five I guess) main cast members, along with the glorified extras which make up the bridge crew. I'm talking about the people who are not even stationed on Discovery, but we keep running into again and again and again.

In the first act, for example, there were only essentially four Klingons - T'Kumva, Voq, L'Rell, and Kol. After these four were introduced by the end of the second episode, the show never introduced an additional Klingon again which was anything more than an extra. With T'Kumva and Kol dead, and Voq/Ash and L'Rell onboard the Discovery, the only free Klingon left that even has a name is Dennas (the woman who wears the jewelry veil).

In terms of non-Klingon guest characters in Act 1, besides extras and those on the Discovery, virtually all the show has is Admiral Cornwell, Mudd, and Sarek. Okay, Amanda Grayson appeared once, and some other characters like Stella, the convicts who try to beat up Burnham in the third episode, and rando admirals make brief appearances, but they can barely be called characters.

So, we go to the mirror universe. Obviously the shtick is seeing mirror versions of characters from the prime universe, so it's not that surprising to see mirror versions of Georgiou, Sarek, Voq, Stamets, Landry, Detmer, Owosekun, Connor, etc. It stretches credulity, but so does every single effing thing in the mirrorverse, so I was willing to let it slide.

But in the trailer for next week, what do we see? We see upon the return to the Prime Universe that Cornwell, Sarek transport onboard - seemingly with the PU versions of the MU rebels which accompanied Voq! Presuming that Mudd can't get away from Stella's tender TLC, this means that literally the only Prime Universe characters which were given more than two lines of dialogue suddenly appear - together - as the first contact Discovery has with the Federation.

Okay, I know this isn't procedural Trek any longer - that it's serialized. And I realize the seasons are a lot shorter these days. But the need to shoehorn the same rotating group of five guest characters into the plot is getting ridiculous, considering how huge the Federation actually is supposed to be. I'd much rather some new characters get introduced at this point - characters we can learn more about from the second season onward. It also feels like it hurts the show greatly, insofar as the "worldbuilding" aspect of this Trek has been very lacking. Instead of feeling like I'm watching a real world somewhere, I feel like I'm watching a stage play where a small cast has to keep filling up the arc.

Because a smaller cast is easier to develop as characters rather then throwing in random characters who we will never see again?

Who is a better character Gul Dukat or Tomalak, Sela or any random Romulan commander that appeared in TNG? Dukat, because he appeared often enough that we got a feel for the character, what can you tell me about Tomalak? You say its not realistic that these same characters show up, but fiction is not reality and why would I care about random Klingon villains that show up one week and never appear again? I would rather build up existing characters, rather then introduce new ones and do nothing with them.

 

[eschaton]

Because a smaller cast is easier to develop as characters rather then throwing in random characters who we will never see again?

Who is a better character Gul Dukat or Tomalak, Sela or any random Romulan commander that appeared in TNG? Dukat, because he appeared often enough that we got a feel for the character, what can you tell me about Tomalak? You say its not realistic that these same characters show up, but fiction is not reality and why would I care about random Klingon villains that show up one week and never appear again? I would rather build up existing characters, rather then introduce new ones and do nothing with them.

Again, I'm not comparing it with past Trek - not really. I realize doing a serial is different than a procedural (which Trek mostly was in the past, aside from DS9 and a bit of Enterprise). And I loved seeing recurring characters even on TNG. But there's a difference in degree here, because aside from the "fake guest characters" like Garak, Martok, Rom, etc on DS9, we usually didn't see characters more than once or twice per (long) season.

Regardless, again, let's compare things to Game of Thrones. Basically the same run time as Discovery for the first season, and a smaller budget. They had 19 main characters who were all given development, along with introducing characters who only later became main cast members (Tywin, Samwell Tarley, Bronn, Varys) or who never became part of the main cast (Pycelle, Osha, Rickon, Ros, etc). All of the main characters, and some of the guest characters, were given solid development over the course of the season.

If GoT - with the same run-time and budget - can develop three times as many characters as Discovery, then I don't think arguments that Discovery didn't have time to introduce more characters hold up.

 

[Noname Given]

Even though DS9 remains my favorite Trek, it did indeed suffer from "small universe syndrome" near the end of its run. Sisko becomes a literal god. Rom is Grand Negus. Martok is Chancelor of the Klingon Empire. Odo saves his people, etc. Not to mention things like Weyoun being cloned many times to excuse him popping up over and over again. But even so, it generally did better than Discovery has to date - perhaps because it was the most truly "ensemble" of all of the Treks, and it had the largest set of recurring guest characters in the franchise.

Enterprise's attempt to do "epic" didn't work as well, but at least the story was somewhat plausibly constrained by having the NX-01 isolated in a different region of space from the Federation - along with the ship not engaging much in heavy combat directly.

While I think Discovery to date has done serialization better than Enterprise did in Season 3, I think ENT season 3 still felt broader and more expansive than what DIS is trying to do.

DS9 suffered from 'small universe' syndrome at the START of it's run:
- Captain Picard and the 1701-D showed up.

- The Klingon Duras Sisters showed up (and they'd had their run on TNG with Redemption and Unification I & II around the time DS9 was premiring.

- Q showed up.
^^^^
And this was all within the DS9 series first 6 episodes.

 

[Jadeb]

I wouldn't mind never seeing Sarek again on this show. It's a small cast but the plotlines are overstuffed.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Poor Ujilli. He's the leader of the House of Mo'Kai, spymaster of the Klingon Empire. He took out the Elders of Cancri, and might very well be running things now.

Yet he's only been mentioned on this forum about four times since last May. He really knows how to blend in.

 

[Succubint]

...Seriously, I know they've been given names, but has anybody used them? They should probably get some nametags.

While I get your point, and we do need a more fleshing out of the bridge crew, Lt. Cmmdr Airiam was name-checked in the opening two episodes when she took the conn. Connor, Bryce, Rhys, Detmer and Owosekun have all been referred to by name at least once over the past 13 episodes as well as having some lines. However, so far, they are background characters compared to those contracted to be regulars.

Future fan fave Miles O'Brien was a nameless crew member who flitted between jobs on TNG before he was finally given a name in season two "Unnatural Selection". Canon-wise he was even referred to briefly as a Lt. and had the pips before they later settled on him being a non comm Chief.

Mister Worf didn't really get anything significant to do in the beginning either. He wasn't even originally intended to be a regular character when he was cast. It wasn't until the 20th episode of the first season that he got a decent story-line (kudos to the writers), then later he was promoted due to Tasha Yar's death.

I do hope that moving forward, we will get more stories and attention paid to the other crew members which have been in practically every episode but not featured as much as many of us would like. I get why that is, due to the very focused nature of the serialized story they wanted to tell. But, yeah, it would be great if the other crew members got more scenes/development in S2. I'm assuming, however, that the next season will still be nearly half the number of the older series. There will likely still be the same issues cropping up due to time constraints and the need for streamlined story-telling.

 

[Noname Given]

While I get your point, and we do need a more fleshing out of the bridge crew, Lt. Cmmdr Airiam was name-checked in the opening two episodes when she took the conn. Connor, Bryce, Rhys, Detmer and Owosekun have all been referred to by name at least once over the past 13 episodes as well as having some lines. However, so far, they are background characters compared to those contracted to be regulars.

Future fan fave Miles O'Brien was a nameless crew member who flitted between jobs on TNG before he was finally given a name in season two "Unnatural Selection". Canon-wise he was even referred to briefly as a Lt. and had the pips before they later settled on him being a non comm Chief.

Mister Worf didn't really get anything significant to do in the beginning either. He wasn't even originally intended to be a regular character when he was cast. It wasn't until the 20th episode of the first season that he got a decent story-line (kudos to the writers), then later he was promoted due to Tasha Yar's death.

I do hope that moving forward, we will get more stories and attention paid to the other crew members which have been in practically every episode but not featured as much as many of us would like. I get why that is, due to the very focused nature of the serialized story they wanted to tell. But, yeah, it would be great if the other crew members got more scenes/development in S2. I'm assuming, however, that the next season will still be nearly half the number of the older series. There will likely still be the same issues cropping up due to time constraints and the need for streamlined story-telling.

For TOS Season 1 - the Bridge crew consisted primarily of Spock, Uhura, Sulu (Scotty was in the Engine Room, McCoy the Sickbay) and Lt. <Guest Star of the week> in the Navigator's position <--- Replaced by Chekov in Season 2 - but with George Takei off filming "The Green Berets" for most of Season 2, sometimes his slot was given to <Guest Star of the week>.

My point being - overall even the above were merely 'recurring extras' most of the time<--- and that was true for many 1960ies era TV series like Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea or Gunsmoke, etc.

It wasn't until the TNG era that ALL the main cast got prominent billing and they tried to do a more ensemble show. ST: D actually is still an emsemble show - but many of the regulars aren't members of the Discovery crew; and the Bridge crew are just 'recurring extras'.

Seriously, go back and watch TOS Season 1 and the 'Big 3' (well two in S1) are mostly there to say "Incoming transmission..." or "Shields just snapped on!..". You really don't get much background info, nor do they say much even if they are sitting in the Briefing room with Kirk/Spock/McCoy.

 

[Wulf]

While I get your point, and we do need a more fleshing out of the bridge crew, Lt. Cmmdr Airiam was name-checked in the opening two episodes when she took the conn. Connor, Bryce, Rhys, Detmer and Owosekun have all been referred to by name at least once over the past 13 episodes as well as having some lines.

Detmer is the only name that I feel I should have known out of the ones you listed, but yes, I suppose I was exaggerating for effect. I'd probably even be perfectly fine with not knowing their names if they weren't starting to make a big deal about how they're a family now that Lorca's gone. They're not a family.

I hope to see the interesting journey of them becoming one, but they can't just say it and make it so. At least, not without some sort of fancy accent.

 

[Tomalak]

Who is a better character Gul Dukat or Tomalak, Sela or any random Romulan commander that appeared in TNG?

Well I'm biased.

 

[Refuge]

But probably 90% of the users here are fans. So my statement is still valid. You can write negative things about Discovery as much as you want, but among 100 replies there will be only a few that agree with you.

And my first statement also is valid, there is no point in writing negative stuff here when all you are going to get are: "That's not true, Discovery is the greatest..." "TNG was shit", "DS9 was shit"....

There's an awful lot of whataboutism when it comes such discussions. It's a diversion

I have found implausibility with usage of core cast. Tilly has been overplayed. Yes she was Michael's room mate but she's a tedious cadet. Oh hang on she's a training partner. Oh, she's a spore specialist. Oh she's a medic. Oh she's a party girl. Oh she's a mirror Captain. Oh make it go away.

I'm scared that this spore might infect her and there will be a million Tillies polluting the universe.

 

[fireproof78]

There's an awful lot of whataboutism when it comes such discussions. It's a diversion

Diversion? I would like to think its a request for consistency rather than insisting DISCO be at a certain standard that other Trek's struggled with, especially in the first season.

 

[Jadeb]

The last first season of a Trek show aired more than 16 years ago. TNG's terrible first season was 30 years ago. Are those really the standards by which we should judge a big-budget production in the era of prestige television?

Non-fans certainly won't.

 

[picardjean-luc]

I'm not sure what you mean, there are tons of useful characters to cover for Lorca.

Aside from Michael and Saru, there's....

That girl. With the thing over her eye. You know, head-shavey girl. She sits on the bridge somewhere.

...Seriously, I know they've been given names, but has anybody used them? They should probably get some nametags.

Or at least cool nicknames, like Shavy 'n Shiny.

Detmer should be called "Cressida" due to her similarities with Natalie Dormer's character from "Hunger Games."

Not sure how we are going to nickname Owosekun and Airiam though. "Black girl with too much make-up" and "Dr Bashir's great-great-aunt" ??

 

[lawman]

Seriously, go back and watch TOS Season 1 and the 'Big 3' (well two in S1) are mostly there to say "Incoming transmission..." or "Shields just snapped on!..". You really don't get much background info, nor do they say much even if they are sitting in the Briefing room with Kirk/Spock/McCoy.

I'd have to disagree with you. It's true that TOS was fundamentally about the triad of Kirk/Spock/McCoy... but even so, especially during the show's first season, they did quite a lot to help us get to know Sulu, Uhura, and Scotty as well. There were dining hall and rec room and shore leave interludes that served little purpose except to flesh out the characters. Heck, even Kevin Riley (who appeared all of twice, and really was just a glorified extra) came across with more of a sense of personality than any of the Discovery's bridge crew so far. Even Detmer — who, as has been pointed out, has specific story-relevant reasons to resent Burnham — hasn't actually had a single on-screen conversation with her.

I have found implausibility with usage of core cast. Tilly has been overplayed. Yes she was Michael's room mate but she's a tedious cadet. Oh hang on she's a training partner. Oh, she's a spore specialist. Oh she's a medic. Oh she's a party girl. Oh she's a mirror Captain. Oh make it go away.

You know, I quite like Tilly, and have since her first appearance. Even so, you make a valid point here. I hadn't really thought about it until you mentioned it, but she has definitely been used in a number of roles on the ship that could quite plausibly have been occupied by multiple different characters. (Although, honestly, the only one that struck me as genuinely out of character for her was the party scene.)

 

[Lord Garth]

Jumping in late. I've been busy all day.

I'd think once in the Prime Universe, Lorca would want to populate his ship with people he "knew", so he'd try to have as many of Prime Universe counterparts of people he knew in the Mirror Universe assigned to Discovery as possible.

 

[Trekkin]

The last first season of a Trek show aired more than 16 years ago. TNG's terrible first season was 30 years ago. Are those really the standards by which we should judge a big-budget production in the era of prestige television?

Non-fans certainly won't.

Non-fans aren’t the ones nitpicking. Probably because most people take it for granted that television productions aren’t ever going to truly mirror reality.

I find it interesting that somone brought up Game of Thrones. Funny enough, those books literally do have a named cast of thousands. Most of whom are seen or mentioned once, and never return. ‘Injecting realism into a conventional fantasy’, and all that.

Yet the television version - large cast or no - axes a lot of book characters, or combines them with other lead or ‘recurring’ ones. They cut actual leads, because there’s just too many darn people in the novel for a live action adaptation to afford or satisfyingly juggle.

(For eg. Book!Quentyn was cut, and most of his important elements were split between Dany, Tyrion, and Hizdahr. And then there’s what they’ve done with Aegon...)

Now, I’m not saying GoT always fires on all cylinders when it comes to its creative decisions. But when even the biggest show on television needs to make concessions in the name of utility, it’s a wee bit harsh to hold other shows to an even higher standard.

And in spite of fan-complaints, the lack of ‘reliasm’ really doesn’t seem to bother that show’s ‘general audience’ one whit.

 

[Nerys Myk]

There's an awful lot of whataboutism when it comes such discussions. It's a diversion

A diversion from what?
Discovery doesn't exist in a vacuum. All the shows and films that came before it inform it and informs a viewer's perception of it. All of us compare it to what came before and have expectations on what it should be. That's the nature of fandom.

 

[Jadeb]

And in spite of fan-complaints, the lack of ‘reliasm’ really doesn’t seem to bother that show’s ‘general audience’ one whit.

How would we know this? We don't even have general viewership figures, much less a breakdown like that.

 

[The Overlord]

Again, I'm not comparing it with past Trek - not really. I realize doing a serial is different than a procedural (which Trek mostly was in the past, aside from DS9 and a bit of Enterprise). And I loved seeing recurring characters even on TNG. But there's a difference in degree here, because aside from the "fake guest characters" like Garak, Martok, Rom, etc on DS9, we usually didn't see characters more than once or twice per (long) season.

Regardless, again, let's compare things to Game of Thrones. Basically the same run time as Discovery for the first season, and a smaller budget. They had 19 main characters who were all given development, along with introducing characters who only later became main cast members (Tywin, Samwell Tarley, Bronn, Varys) or who never became part of the main cast (Pycelle, Osha, Rickon, Ros, etc). All of the main characters, and some of the guest characters, were given solid development over the course of the season.

If GoT - with the same run-time and budget - can develop three times as many characters as Discovery, then I don't think arguments that Discovery didn't have time to introduce more characters hold up.

But who cares about most of those random characters? Some of these one shot characters make an impact, but for the most part, their throw away characters, does anyone care about this guy:

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Mendak

Or this guy?

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Sirol

Or her?

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Taris

Not really, because they are just random Romulans, I rather would have seen Tomalak be built up as Moriarty to Picard's Sherlock Holmes, rather then see a bunch of random Romulans show up, cause trouble and we never hear from them again.

I rather Discovery take a page out of DS9's book and invest in characters, rather then the TNG /Voyager random alien guest star who will be unimportant next week.

You can argue that they have not built these characters up enough, but it is just the first season, I do not think going back to random Klingon/Romulan captains is the solution here.