Spoilers Spoilery Question about Lorca, Stamets, and Mirrors

[Lord Garth]

How do you think Mirror Lorca got into the Prime Universe?

Before someone says, "It's NOT the Prime Universe!" just go with the flow. That debate can be saved for plenty of other threads. And with that out of the way...

I have to wonder if Lorca knows more about where the Defiant is than he let on...

...or was it Mirror Stamets' spore drive? If the latter is the case, then -- once in the Prime Universe -- Lorca must've gone out of his way to intentionally request Stamets in hopes that he'd be able to take advantage of him to get him back to the Mirror Universe.

But that would lead to another question: why would Mirror Stamets not go with Lorca? Why would he stay in the MU?

Or did he? There was the mirror reflection and Stamets' bizarre behavior for a few episodes. The two Stametses couldn't have swapped places because once Stamets began to act normally again, you'd think he'd have a recollection of something having happened.

 

[lursa]

I'd bet that Stamets hasn't completed the Spore Drive in the MU... something about him needing Dr. Culber in his life for him to reach his full potential. He seems like the kind of person who would obsess over small details to the point of getting nothing done unless someone keeps him on track. MU Stamets is able to access the mycelial network, but gets stuck in it and corrupts it. I also get the feeling that they would hate each other in both universes. Lorca wants quick results, Stamets wants solid science.

I'm leaning towards the idea that Lorca read the Defiant report, and decided to use the crossover as a plan B in case his coup failed. He or Burnham could've heard rumors about it and figured out how to get a copy. Now that we know they had a creepy, creepy, horrible "thing", I could see Burnham assisting with the coup.

Coup fails, so Lorca heads off to the crossover point. Burnham is ordered by Georgiou to track him down, but gets killed at some point. Georgiou could have predicted a betrayal from her and put out a hit? Doesn't seem like Lorca would have killed her.

Lorca replicates the conditions needed to cross over, does so without his crew (we can see from the preview that they were captured alive in the MU), and blows up the PU Buran before anyone catches on to him.

I think the Stamets mirror scene was just hinting that the two (MU and PU Stamets) have a mental connection.

 

[The Wormhole]

My theory at the moment is that Lorca knows how to modify a transporter to cross the universes, like they always did intentionally on DS9. When ISS Buran was going down, he simply beamed himself over to USS Buran.

 

[Timo]

Lorca brings up the Defiant as a means to get home. We know this is a lie - he doesn't want to get home, he wants to get to the Palace. We might do well to assume the Defiant has nothing to do with how Lorca crosses universes, then.

But Lorca is the one to scan the database and "find" the Defiant for our heroes. Why didn't somebody like Saru find it first/too? Might we infer that Lorca is withholding the database, just as the spore drive logs are under his control and not subject to Burnham's review without his say-so?

In that case, we might just as well assume the files themselves directly contain data on assorted means to cross over, including the "Mirror, Mirror" incident that would (probably, as it's stardate-free) be in the past of the Defiant when she crosses over. Perhaps the way home was always included in the database, and Lorca is deliberately hiding it?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Krandor]

I think mirror stalmets Used the network to send Lorca over without a spire drive in order to get a spire drive and bring it back and that action is what caused mu Stamets to be lost in the network. That would explain his “he did it” comment.

 

[bookworm8571]

Accidental during the Battle of Binary Stars. They switched places. The other one died. He knew about the Prime Universe because he was a top official for the Emperor and knew of Stamets’ research.

 

[ClintDagger]

Is it possible that Lorca knew the future, and knew how to crossover from the unredacted Defiant files? Perhaps he knew that the USS Buran would be destroyed on “X” date, and knew he could then crossover and take over for PU Lorca and not be found out. His mission may have been to bring back PU Burnham because MU Burnham died and he needed a Michael Burnham to help overthrow the emperor.

Wasn’t there a scene where they are looking at all the jump coordinates on a screen and someone remarks that all jumps are there except for the one that took them to the MU? That confirmed for me that it was Lorca that did something to make the jump to the MU on that last try.

 

[ClintDagger]

I also wonder if we’re going to find out that MU Lorca did something to PU Burnham without her knowledge that caused her to disobey Georgiou and that’s going to be revealed later, thus exonerating Burnham and allowing her to be reinstated.

It just seems like there’s nothing Burnham can do, no matter how heroic she is, to undo her insubordination and be reinstated. At best Starfleet might commute her sentence and allow her to become a civilian again.

I also wonder if Lorca will send her back in time to right before she disobeyed Georgiou so she has a “do over”. Then she uses what she learned in the MU to negotiate with Klingons and end the war.

 

[Krandor]

I also wonder if we’re going to find out that MU Lorca did something to PU Burnham without her knowledge that caused her to disobey Georgiou and that’s going to be revealed later, thus exonerating Burnham and allowing her to be reinstated.

I don't see how since MU Lorca didn't come over until after that happened.

 

[ClintDagger]

I don't see how since MU Lorca didn't come over until after that happened.

I don’t see how either. Unless he has been going back and forth longer than we know? Who knows, I just don’t think I can swallow Burnham getting a get out of jail free card for what she did but I’m guessing that’s where we are headed.

 

[Lord Garth]

Coup fails, so Lorca heads off to the crossover point. Burnham is ordered by Georgiou to track him down, but gets killed at some point. Georgiou could have predicted a betrayal from her and put out a hit? Doesn't seem like Lorca would have killed her.

I think Georgiou sent Burnham after Lorca as a loyalty test. It's possible Mirror Burnham crossed over with Lorca into the Prime Universe. They had to look up who they were in the Prime Universe. Then something happened to Mirror Burnham afterwards. This is large-scale speculation on my part.

I think the Stamets mirror scene was just hinting that the two (MU and PU Stamets) have a mental connection.

I'll agree with that. Maybe anyone in the Mycelial Network has a mental link on some level. Conscious on Mirror Stamets' part and unconscious with Prime Stamets.

Lorca brings up the Defiant as a means to get home. We know this is a lie - he doesn't want to get home, he wants to get to the Palace. We might do well to assume the Defiant has nothing to do with how Lorca crosses universes, then.

I don't think so either because the rift isn't just inter-dimensional but also inter-temporal.

Is it possible that Lorca knew the future, and knew how to crossover from the unredacted Defiant files? Perhaps he knew that the USS Buran would be destroyed on “X” date, and knew he could then crossover and take over for PU Lorca and not be found out.

Could be.

His mission may have been to bring back PU Burnham because MU Burnham died and he needed a Michael Burnham to help overthrow the emperor.

I don't think so. Because it's not his Burnham. He might've been hoping against hope the same connection would be there, but he shouldn't have been expecting it.

It's possible that because Prime Burnham was sentenced for Treason, he knew this Burnham wasn't "goodie, goodie" and thus she'd be someone who he could recruit. If Burnham were stickly By-The-Book, he might not have wanted her help at all.

Wasn’t there a scene where they are looking at all the jump coordinates on a screen and someone remarks that all jumps are there except for the one that took them to the MU? That confirmed for me that it was Lorca that did something to make the jump to the MU on that last try.

Yup.

 

[ITDUDE]

So we know USS/ISS Buran gotta have something to do with this. Both got destroyed with Lorca (one or both) apparently the only survivors. So let's say ISS/USS Burans were destroyed simultaneously at the same point of time and space in both universes it could have caused interphase-quantum-entanglement-space-time-rift kind of thing and caused both Lorcas to switch places. And....
<wild speculation mode>
So MU Lorca (now in PU) goes into revenge mode and wants revenge on those who destroyed the Burans (the Klingons in PU and the Emperor in MU). He destroys the Klingons and at the same time knowing (from Defiant files) that there is a mirror universe manipulates PU Stamets to come up with a way to cross over back to MU. He then goes after the Emperor to get revenge for ISS Buran. Assuming he kills her (poor Georgiou, killed twice in one season) in the next episode or two, he will surrender himself to USS Discovery crew to do with as they see fit. But seeing as he did nothing wrong to them (other than lying, he was a pretty decent captain) they will put him back in the captain's chair..... and then in the last scene of season one PU Lorca shows up, alive and well.
</wild speculation mode>

 

[The Wormhole]

other than lying, he was a pretty decent captain

Other than that time he manipulated Admiral Cornwell into getting captured, right?

 

[Lord Garth]

I feel like the idea is the only have Lorca for one season and by the end of it we'll think, "Yeah, I can see why the character wouldn't be able to come back." I wonder if he'll survive the season?

 

[Nerys Myk]

How do you think Mirror Lorca got into the Prime Universe?

He was beaming up through an ion storm while traveling through a wormhole in interphasic space.

 

[Ovation]

He was beaming up through an ion storm while traveling through a wormhole in interphasic space.

While wearing a sombrero. Don’t forget the sombrero.

 

[ITDUDE]

Other than that time he manipulated Admiral Cornwell into getting captured, right?

Well, she was planning to take his ship away. Don’t come between a man and his ship.

 

[Timo]

On the other hand, getting captured was what Cornwell was planning on doing anyway, regardless of Lorca. And Sarek before her. Apparently, it's just part and parcel of that "Risk is our business" thing.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

Still, Cornwell gets captured and suddenly Lorca stops using the carte blanche he apparently has in regards to Discovery's missions and decides "I'll only rescue her if ordered to."

 

[SJGardner]

On the other hand, getting captured was what Cornwell was planning on doing anyway, regardless of Lorca. And Sarek before her. Apparently, it's just part and parcel of that "Risk is our business" thing.

Timo Saloniemi

They all just want those shiny Prisoner of War Medals for their collections. Lorca certainly wouldn't want to squash their dreams.