Why do so many people hate 'Insurrection' so much?
- Thread starter Stroudarian
- Start date
AT least NEM tried to be somewhat ambitious sure it might have failed in those ambitions but at least it was trying.
I'm guessing that with Insurrection they were trying to ape The Voyage Home's formula of being a light and inoffensive comedy that still carried a social message. Even aside from the muddled nature of the message, however, the creators seemed to miss the fact that important plot developments still occurred in TVH (the wrap-up of the Genesis plot threads, Kirk's demotion, and the introduction of the Enterprise-A). With Insurrection, the most we get on that front is Riker and Troi rekindling their relationship, and even then it took until Nemesis for that to really pay off.
As I said in my initial post to this thread, the fact that the movie could have easily dealt with important plot developments going on elsewhere in the Trekverse at that point strikes me as the most damning thing about it. Instead of taking the opportunity to do things with the Dominion War that DS9 could never have budgetarily afforded to do, the movie tells an almost-entirely unrelated tale. And worse, it's a somewhat boring and morally unsympathetic (at least for me) one.
Exactly. I remember leaving the theatre thinking to myself 'That's it? That's the best they could come up with?'
Coming off the back of the superb last few seasons of DS9 where seemingly all the major powers were being dragged into the dominion conflict, this boring story was a crushing disappointment.
It's the only trek movie I've seen on the big screen that I felt this way about on first viewing. There was just no 'wow' moment in the film whatsoever, like the fleet battle in FC or saucer crash in GEN, or the excellent space battle and ram in NEM. It just felt like a small scale TV movie.
I actually got a little excited when the mention of Ketracel White came up, thinking that maybe that was a foreshadowing of Dominion involvement in the situation.
Not so much, as it turned out.
And to those who would argue that TPTB didn't want to confuse the average movie-goer, I'll counter with TPTB blowing a huge opportunity to promote DS9 in the process. No wonder there's some feeling that that series was the black sheep of the franchise.
Besides, was the average movie-goer confused by the appearance of Defiant in FC? If so, I never heard much about it.
Not so much, as it turned out.
And to those who would argue that TPTB didn't want to confuse the average movie-goer, I'll counter with TPTB blowing a huge opportunity to promote DS9 in the process. No wonder there's some feeling that that series was the black sheep of the franchise.
Besides, was the average movie-goer confused by the appearance of Defiant in FC? If so, I never heard much about it.
The moment the studio and producers decided they had done too much heavy, dark material over the pervious two films...any "Dominion War" tie-in was done for. And, that was very early on in the production process.
Admittedly, we all know what happened here. Paramount has spent decades chasing the successes of TWOK and TVH. Since TWOK and TSFS, two emotionally taxing and intense films, benefited from a follow-up with a lighthearted TVH...they wanted to try that formula here. Unfortunately, when your formula is to purposefully create a light, fluffy, disposable-fun story as a major motion picture in your sci-fi action / adventure franchise...you're basically dead in the water from the get-go. That is, unless your name is either Nimoy, Meyer or Bennett.
It probably wouldn't be as well-regarded overall, but you'd still have some good fish out of water jokes and the schtick about nuclear wessels.
All that Insurrection gives us is some fairly insipid romantic banter between Picard and Anij, and Data asking Worf if his boobs have firmed up.
The only scene in INS that I thought was well done was when Geordi got his eyesight back and his talk with Picard about it. But since the entire scene was negated once the fountain of youth crap wore off, it then became completely pointless. Actually it was worse, because now Geordi has become the victim of a cruel tease. And it didn't even make sense for him to lose his eyesight again. If the whole reason why the Federation was using the Ba'ku planet was to heal injuries, then what's the point if the injuries return once you leave the planet?
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To be fair, the way Insurrection worded the conversation between Picard and Geordi was ambiguous enough that they could have used it to justify either keeping or getting rid of Geordi's natural eyesight. It's really more Nemesis that was at fault for ignoring that plot thread.
The real question is, how does radiation that de-ages people and heals injuries cure a birth defect? If Geordi had been blinded by an accident or a degenerative disease then I could understand that, but the way it's depicted really doesn't make any sense.
Some find the Ba'ku too unlikeable and the Enterprise crew also unlikeable/unreasonable for helping them, otherwise it just feels too low-stakes, with Picard going rogue but not really (really just disobeying orders from one guy, not a lot of sense that the whole organization disagrees or he'll face punishment), especially with the comic relief being pretty forced and inconsistent.
And yeah, it's probably inevitable that with movies (more expensive to make and watch, not having other stories around it) people have higher expectations than with a weekly/26 episodes a year TV series.
I do find it interesting that with Avatar most viewers didn't think the Na'vi or Jake were unlikeable.
I don't think they were claiming exclusive rights to the planet or its effects; Picard suggested other people including the Sona can and should settle on other parts of the planet, Dougherty claimed people wanted the effects without having to live on the planet.
And yeah, it's probably inevitable that with movies (more expensive to make and watch, not having other stories around it) people have higher expectations than with a weekly/26 episodes a year TV series.
I do find it interesting that with Avatar most viewers didn't think the Na'vi or Jake were unlikeable.
I don't think they were claiming exclusive rights to the planet or its effects; Picard suggested other people including the Sona can and should settle on other parts of the planet, Dougherty claimed people wanted the effects without having to live on the planet.
Yes, you make a good point. I'm still kinda curious how Levar Burton felt about it though. Did he want to continue being blind because that was Geordi's main character trait? Did he want to keep his eyesight but the producers said no? Did he really care either way?
I think the Na'vi are more sympathetic because Pandora is their homeworld, and there's way more than six hundred of them. Also, humans weren't exiles from the Na'vi to begin with, so there's no argument there that they have any innate right to the planet. Also IIRC the humans are less interested in moving there than in raping the planet and killing the Na'vi if they get in the way. Ironically there may be an argument that the Son'a show more of an interest in negotiating in good faith in INS than the humans do in Avatar.
Would depend on how desperate the federation was.
I seriously doubt that the population of the federation are so single mindedly ideological that they would let a collection of rules result in their subjugation, substantial destruction or complete annihilation.
On the other hand, if the federation wasn't facing extinction then that would be a different matter.
Wars make their own rules.
Why would they care about promoting a show that was 6 months away from ending? Ratings don't matter anymore when the final episode has probably already been written.
With this logic, they should have included Voyager somehow to promote their ongoing show and really ruined the movie!
I'm glad they stayed away from anything DS9. They told their stories, let Next Gen tell theirs.
Except that he was a regular cast member of TNG for every season and these were TNG movies.
Did you not see Nemesis?
You absolutely can.
And in Insurrection, they literally talked over his return explanation basically saying "he's back, who cares why, on with our story".
