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Spoilers Visual continuity - Does Discovery strictly need to show past designs... at all?

I don't think we'll see the Kelvin -- at least not in ST 2009 form -- because its design was created by the Paramount division and DSC is CBS.

I'd think the designs would have to be different out of legal necessity so that one is CBS and one is Paramount.

It's part of why, I suspect even if the Defiant isn't exactly the TOS Design, they couldn't go with the Kelvin Design for the Constitution Class either.
CBS really does own everything Trek as far as the IP is concerned, including stuff used in the Kelvin Timeline.
http://www.cbsconsumerproducts.com/startrek/star_trek_new_movie.html
http://www.cbsconsumerproducts.com/startrek/star_trek_into_darkness.html
http://www.cbsconsumerproducts.com/startrek/star-trek-beyond.html
Paramount controls the production, distribution, and marketing of those films, but they're all licensed through CBS. Probably the only thing stopping CBS from using Kelvin Timeline ships is a lack of interest by DIS' creators
 
I don't think Discovery needs to do anything, honestly. If they decided to never ever show any past Trek designs and stay a visual reboot, I would be totally OK with it. If they decided to go full Retrofuturistic after Season 2 with 60s aesthetics like Ascension, I would also be OK. Sometimes I feel like I'm part of a small group of people who sit on the fence when it comes down to these matters.

Like @RedDwarf already mentioned, these discussions always end up with one camp going about on something like "Old School Sci-fi looks like garbage made with tinfoil and cardboard that no one cares about" and another camp replies saying "Modern Sci-fi is generic, unnecessarily gritty and boring" . There's a tiny bit of truth on those affirmations and a lot of lies. I too think that stuff like the Buck Rogers rocketship and his pew-pew laser gun have no place in Star Trek and I agree that pragmatic ship designs like the ones from The Expanse would just feel like a waste in Trek... Come on, though. If Old School Sci-fi was that much irrelevant today, no way in hell Rogue One would've sold that many tickets and if Modern Sci-fi was just "unoriginal", Movies like Avatar would never be regarded so highly... Both types of aesthetics have their own significance. You just need to know how to properly use it.

My personal opinion is that you can always have a good mix of both aesthetics. Modernize and enrich with details as much is possible from past designs and diversify creating new stuff from voids left by Trek canon. Simple as that. I'm super hyped to see what they will do with the Defiant. I trust that they will make the right decision.
 
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CBS really does own everything Trek as far as the IP is concerned, including stuff used in the Kelvin Timeline.
http://www.cbsconsumerproducts.com/startrek/star_trek_new_movie.html
http://www.cbsconsumerproducts.com/startrek/star_trek_into_darkness.html
http://www.cbsconsumerproducts.com/startrek/star-trek-beyond.html
Paramount controls the production, distribution, and marketing of those films, but they're all licensed through CBS. Probably the only thing stopping CBS from using Kelvin Timeline ships is a lack of interest by DIS' creators

Yep and CBS can licence out the KT stuff to other products, for example Star Trek Online
 
Take a concept car from the 1930s that projected what a car would look like in the 1990s and then put it next to an actual car from the 1990s. The concept car is probably going to look more advanced in design without being more advanced because the 1990s car designers went back to simple wind tunnel designed cars and all look like jelly beans.

What we have now in Star Trek are ship concepts designed in the 1960s and 2010s for the 2250s. None of them are going to look like that in the 2250, but both should be equally valid for the audience.

Nope. Try again. 1960s designs are not as valid as 2010 designs because we're viewing them in the 2010s. They may be as equally valid in 2250, but not in 2017.
 
Oh and one more thing about what 'real' future might look like. I actually think that TOS Connie has a better chance of being closer to real space ships
lol no

I really doubt that real space engineers would bother with organically arching pylons or sleek aerodynamic shapes, as such things won't matter in the space.
Every manned spacecraft in history has been designed with some accommodation for aerodynamics. Hell, even the TOS Enterprise looks the way it does because the saucer was designed to be able to enter an atmosphere and land on the surface, with the engineering section and the nacelles both being "bolt on" components and basically expendable. It's what a 1960s artist would extrapolate from 1960s spacecraft designs, and since space engineering hasn't changed much in 50 years, the basis of those extrapolations are still valid.

But the fictional universe in which Star Trek exists is far different than it was in the early days, prior to "The Cage" when the torchbearers of filmed science fiction were "Forbidden Planet" and "This Island Earth." Real technology has also evolved,
image.jpg

Soyuz_TMA-13_M_docked.jpg


And it turns out that one of Jeffries most fundamental assumptions -- that all critical components would be hidden away behind a smooth shiny hull -- is something that has not been borne out in reality, and even Star Trek itself has moved away from this idea.

They'd use the simplest forms that get the job done and stick the part together most straightforward fashion possible.
Soyuz TMA, SpaceX Dragon, Shenzhou, Orion, the space shuttle, the Dream Chaser... these are 6 different spacecraft all designed to do approximately the same thing. But all of them have different shapes, structures and designs of both their crewed sections and their propulsion systems.

So it really isn't a simple matter of choosing simplistic shapes and geometries. Soyuz has that weird bell-shaped crew and service module because it interfaces better with its intended booster, and it uses a spherical orbital module to save weight and simplify construction. The Chinese Shenzhou uses the same kind of adaptor structure for its propulsion stage, but they use a cylindrical orbital module and a slightly larger capsule. Dragon uses a conical capsule with highly convex heat shield; Orion uses much more tapered conical with a flatter heat shield, designed for lifting trajectories; Dream chaser and the Space Shuttle are both orbiter/glider designs, but beyond that they couldn't be any more different.

I think if the Constitution class is going to represent a very advanced starship, it would have to look like it has actually incorporated and refined the design lessons of its predecessors. Much it may suck to admit it, those predecessors now include USS Franklin, NX-01, Shenzhou, Kelvin, and possibly even Discovery. It should look like a ship that took the very best features from all of them and combined them together into something Connie shaped.
 
So the NX looks more advanced the the Ent-D?
Arguably so, considering the NX was a direct riff on the Akira class, which was designed many years after the E-D. So, yeah, the NX definitely appears more advanced and modern than the E-D. If the designers had a little more imagination and gone in a different direction, like maybe adapt a Daedalus-like design for the NX, it would have fit more comfortably in the spaceflight lineage.
 
Arguably so, considering the NX was a direct riff on the Akira class, which was designed many years after the E-D. So, yeah, the NX definitely appears more advanced and modern than the E-D. If the designers had a little more imagination and gone in a different direction, like maybe adapt a Daedalus-like design for the NX, it would have fit more comfortably in the spaceflight lineage.
Or they could have used Paul Frenczli's concept or something similar to it:
enterprise-frenczli.jpg

And just retcon this to be the Daedalus class.
 
Arguably so, considering the NX was a direct riff on the Akira class, which was designed many years after the E-D. So, yeah, the NX definitely appears more advanced and modern than the E-D. If the designers had a little more imagination and gone in a different direction, like maybe adapt a Daedalus-like design for the NX, it would have fit more comfortably in the spaceflight lineage.

I'm not seeing it. It has round nacelles, lots of exposed parts, the hull-plating isn't as smooth as TOS and later ships. The hull texture and materials look very machined.

It looks like a primitive starship compared to the -D and the Akira.

But we already have a thread debating this in the ENT subforum. No need to bring it here.
 
Star Trek 09 - Alternate reality creation. Prior to that it was always you've messed with the timeline and need to repair it. One of the many things wrong with Trek 09.

Once more, someone at the studio called it "creating a timeline" when stuff before the event dose not match. Officially it is as you say, but that makes zero sense as the events are too changed and not all of them post Nero.

Apart from the most common (time gets changed, then needs to be fixed) ...as mentioned, ST11 creates an alternate reality. Time's Arrow is a closed-loop where everything that will happen has already happened. The Prophets can move people around willy-nilly in time without altering other events, and people are able to retain memories of events that no longer happened. In Endgame, a future Janeway comes back in time to get her crew home sooner. She then dies, but nothing that she helped cause reverts to the way it was before.

...And let's not forget the Nexus. And Q!

A few things here
1: Q, and the Prophets can alter reality as they see fit. They use cheat codes.
2: Times arrow was a loop, not really time travel.
3:Endgame did change the past totally, and made a paradox where in the future tech did not ninja vanish, but that version of the timeline was erased.
4: The Nexus removes the person from reality. It is not a time effect, as the realities it creates are not real.
 
I'm not seeing it. It has round nacelles, lots of exposed parts, the hull-plating isn't as smooth as TOS and later ships. The hull texture and materials look very machined.

It looks like a primitive starship compared to the -D and the Akira.

But we already have a thread debating this in the ENT subforum. No need to bring it here.


I think he means the shapes man, not the textures. Also the TOS Nacells look damned primitive, they are simple metal tubes with a dome on one end and a ball on the other. The NX nacells do look more advanced.
 
Or they could have used Paul Frenczli's concept or something similar to it:
enterprise-frenczli.jpg

And just retcon this to be the Daedalus class.

I have no issue with the design of the NX-01. I think it looks like, from a 2000s standpoint, a reasonably futuristic extrapolation. Some of the tech, like the flat panel monitors, are a bit dated even now in 2018, but at the time it worked extremely well. The funny thing is, while it looks a bit corny, they still pulled off making the 1701 a more advanced looking ship, with it's imbedded screens (instead of computer monitors), more spartan, flat surfaces, and more streamlined uniforms.

It obviously wasn't perfect (it still smelled like 1960s cardboard) but the juxtaposition didn't look nearly as bad as I'd expected it to.

All that said, I'm glad that Discovery is visually retconning Trek history.
 
A few things here
Your points are exactly the point I was making. All of these things involve time travel and have different methods/consequences.

2: Times arrow was a loop, not really time travel.
Travelling back in time is not time travel? Okay. :cardie:

3:Endgame did change the past totally, and made a paradox where in the future tech did not ninja vanish, but that version of the timeline was erased.
In other words, time travel happened, and different rules applied. Which is why I listed it in the first place.

4: The Nexus removes the person from reality. It is not a time effect, as the realities it creates are not real.
Did you miss the parts where Kirk went from the 23rd century to the 24th, and the part where Picard travelled back to a point before the destruction of Veridian III?
 
Your points are exactly the point I was making. All of these things involve time travel and have different methods/consequences.

Travelling back in time is not time travel? Okay. :cardie:


In other words, time travel happened, and different rules applied. Which is why I listed it in the first place.

Did you miss the parts where Kirk went from the 23rd century to the 24th, and the part where Picard travelled back to a point before the destruction of Veridian III?


You are still not showing what you claim here.
1: A time loop is not time travel, no, its repeating and starting back at the front. Its a loop in spacetime.
2: Other than Q and other god like beining, you have not shown an change from the standard trek time travel.
 
I'd rather the Enterprise looks more like it does in the recent movies, than the original show. As a more casual fan, I'd find if they used the original designs it'd be a turn off.
 
I'd rather the Enterprise looks more like it does in the recent movies, than the original show. As a more casual fan, I'd find if they used the original designs it'd be a turn off.


I think this right there says why it had to be redesigned. There is a set group of fans that want it to stay old looking, but everyone else, including fans like me, Casual fans like yourself and many younger or newer fans brought in by the new movies the Dated TOS ship is a no go.
 
I'm a younger and newer fan brought in by TOS and the new movies. :shrug:

And you are an oddity man. Nothing wrong with liking TOS, but you have to know many new fans do not have the connection and its just jarring and setting breaking for them to see a random 1960's ship that does not belong. It is simply a numbers game, the average trek fan is like 40 or older. That ship no longer looks Hi tech or futuristic and has not since 1979.
 
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