Why do so many people hate 'Insurrection' so much?
- Thread starter Stroudarian
- Start date
I must admit that I absolutely love it when you use this meme! It has to be the most disarming meme ever invented!
I also must admit that, despite my flailing and gyrating on the topic of INS...I don't hate it. I watch it and enjoy it from time to time. It is, after all, Star Trek...and it's fun to see the TNG cast out and about in an adventure as always. And, I think the fact that whenever it comes up, the controversy about it's ethical subject matter gets debated strongly actually does say something for its effectiveness.
There...see? Like I said...that meme is totally disarming!!!
I can stand behind this. Even though it's very different from, say, DS9, where it was obviously the intention to display ambiguous shades of grey.
The movie does show that the Son'a go legitimately unrecognized by the Ba'ku. (Assuming that they aren't lying. Maybe both factions are just lying their asses off.
)
Reasons:
1. Tries to feel like a TV episode but has Picard swinging around like John MaClane in Space. At least they have the magical radiation thing...
2. Magic radiation thing has characters wondering if the fixing-up properties are temporary. "Nemesis" quickly proves it is (thank Geordi), so "Insurrection" loses 98% of its point right off the bat because the goal was to collect the magic radiation to fix people up
3. Nor does it help that Worf is showing the gorch pimples/measles/herpes thing before they go into the briar patch
4. I see nothing wrong with the joystick, except it must have come from a primo arcade game
5. The "to hell with our orders" was done in the last movie and as a joke. Roger Ebert wasn't the only one who pointed out people wouldn't take it seriously this time.
6. Confused ethics
7. Sona are Baku's parents, who kick them out. The reasons for their separation aren't well-handled and, after thinking into it, the Baku are a bunch of jerks
8. Anij would have more of a fun time with Data
9. That Gilbert and Sullivan song... um...
10. Worf is back, no reason why, wasn't there a war going on with the Dominion or something?
11. Movie feels like a cast reunion party with alcohol served where they forget there's an audience that's noting all the binge drinking (the same thing is much worse in "First Contact")
12. Even if the magic radiation worked, there is absolutely no reason they couldn't set up a hotel on the other side of the planet and get Gilligan and the other castaways to run it.
13. Really forced dialogue. "Hey, you notice your boobies have firmed up? Not that we care about that sort of thing in this day and age." (Makes even the clunkiest, sculpted dialogue in "The Neutral Zone" feel more authentic and less contrived by comparison.)
14. Anij would have had more fun with Data
15. Magical radiation has no effect on anybody until after puberty kicks in. Isn't that nice?
16. When they hired Anthony Zerbe, did they bother looking up to see if he played villains who got their heads blown up in their death scenes? But if a Trek fan isn't a James Bond fan or vice-versa, then it's okay.
17. The white waiter uniforms were a mistake
18. "The ends justify the means" makes no sense when the numbers involved render the point moot
19. How can Anij slow down time? The magic radiation makes them all immortal (but only after puberty sets in)
20. They can have kids but they don't have many. Along with warp technology, or any technology, do we really want to ask about population control methods? This magic radiation doesn't do other things we don't know about? Apart from slowing down time at will, apparently.
21. Which goes right back to "Only 600 people and they can't go to the other side of the planet to open up the spa to heal everyone"
22. Imagine if this film had more solid dialogue and a solid plot. F Murray Abraham's Ru'afo might truly be in the ranks of Kirk, Chang, etc. As it stands, he elevates mediocre dialogue unworthy of TNG.
23. Kinda surprised Picard goes against the Prime Directive, in forming a steamy relationship with Anij
24. Anij would have had much more fun with Data, especially since she can slow down time
25. Did they run out of time in the post-production room? The Collector sets are all unfinished blue-screen.
26. Who the heck puts a self-destruct button on something that amounts to a gigantic butterfly net?! And WHY?!!
27. The movie doesn't know when to be a TV episode and when to be big epic flick, as nummerous scenes flip-flop on
28. How come the bridge viewscreen is now a permanent fixture when, in the previous movie, it shimmied on and off when needed.
29. A "fountain of youth" idea is pretty cheesy to begin with, especially when it plays God with magic inconsistent, convoluted, ultimately ineffective, nonsense radiation - Even "Star Wars" doesn't go there, not that I know of or would want to know of
30. Insurrection's other 2% is the Sona/Baku feud that you'd see on a daytime talk show
31. To enjoy this film, one has to turn off one's brain. Data has an easier job in doing that
32. How come Data can stay afloat in water?
33. Why did the cloaked transport ship need to be on the planet's surface if everybody was going to be beamed into it?
34. Never mind launching it from the planet into space for quite the fun awakening if they're all being abducted while sleeping so what's the POINT of it if the goal was to transport the lot of them somewhere and then do a Dark Helmet and laugh "Fooled you, ha ha!" as they start to age?
35. Which means the 98% of the movie revolving around magical radiation to save people's lives was addressing itself as already being pointless without the need of Geordi still needing optic implants again in "Nemesis". The moment you leave you're SOL anyway so bottling and selling it wouldn't have made any difference
36. Anij and Data, if sitting on a tree and k-i-s-s-i-n-g, would quickly understand what Isaac Newton's apple went through, given Data's mass as applied onto the branch as weight
37. To enjoy this film, one has to turn off one's brain. Data has an easier job in doing that
38. See 31 and 37, cubed.
Other than that, some action dogfight scenes are pretty good but the plot is a mess. But I'm tempted to scope out SF Debris and Red Letter Media to re-view their critiques - after getting some pizza roles; they covered more plotholes and problems than what I remember. It's been a couple years now...
Face it, the movie is more convoluted than 98% of my posts.
Only more contrived than 247% of my posts. 
1. Tries to feel like a TV episode but has Picard swinging around like John MaClane in Space. At least they have the magical radiation thing...
2. Magic radiation thing has characters wondering if the fixing-up properties are temporary. "Nemesis" quickly proves it is (thank Geordi), so "Insurrection" loses 98% of its point right off the bat because the goal was to collect the magic radiation to fix people up
3. Nor does it help that Worf is showing the gorch pimples/measles/herpes thing before they go into the briar patch
4. I see nothing wrong with the joystick, except it must have come from a primo arcade game
5. The "to hell with our orders" was done in the last movie and as a joke. Roger Ebert wasn't the only one who pointed out people wouldn't take it seriously this time.
6. Confused ethics
7. Sona are Baku's parents, who kick them out. The reasons for their separation aren't well-handled and, after thinking into it, the Baku are a bunch of jerks
8. Anij would have more of a fun time with Data
9. That Gilbert and Sullivan song... um...
10. Worf is back, no reason why, wasn't there a war going on with the Dominion or something?
11. Movie feels like a cast reunion party with alcohol served where they forget there's an audience that's noting all the binge drinking (the same thing is much worse in "First Contact")
12. Even if the magic radiation worked, there is absolutely no reason they couldn't set up a hotel on the other side of the planet and get Gilligan and the other castaways to run it.
13. Really forced dialogue. "Hey, you notice your boobies have firmed up? Not that we care about that sort of thing in this day and age." (Makes even the clunkiest, sculpted dialogue in "The Neutral Zone" feel more authentic and less contrived by comparison.)
14. Anij would have had more fun with Data
15. Magical radiation has no effect on anybody until after puberty kicks in. Isn't that nice?
16. When they hired Anthony Zerbe, did they bother looking up to see if he played villains who got their heads blown up in their death scenes? But if a Trek fan isn't a James Bond fan or vice-versa, then it's okay.
17. The white waiter uniforms were a mistake
18. "The ends justify the means" makes no sense when the numbers involved render the point moot
19. How can Anij slow down time? The magic radiation makes them all immortal (but only after puberty sets in)
20. They can have kids but they don't have many. Along with warp technology, or any technology, do we really want to ask about population control methods? This magic radiation doesn't do other things we don't know about? Apart from slowing down time at will, apparently.
21. Which goes right back to "Only 600 people and they can't go to the other side of the planet to open up the spa to heal everyone"
22. Imagine if this film had more solid dialogue and a solid plot. F Murray Abraham's Ru'afo might truly be in the ranks of Kirk, Chang, etc. As it stands, he elevates mediocre dialogue unworthy of TNG.
23. Kinda surprised Picard goes against the Prime Directive, in forming a steamy relationship with Anij
24. Anij would have had much more fun with Data, especially since she can slow down time
25. Did they run out of time in the post-production room? The Collector sets are all unfinished blue-screen.
26. Who the heck puts a self-destruct button on something that amounts to a gigantic butterfly net?! And WHY?!!
27. The movie doesn't know when to be a TV episode and when to be big epic flick, as nummerous scenes flip-flop on
28. How come the bridge viewscreen is now a permanent fixture when, in the previous movie, it shimmied on and off when needed.
29. A "fountain of youth" idea is pretty cheesy to begin with, especially when it plays God with magic inconsistent, convoluted, ultimately ineffective, nonsense radiation - Even "Star Wars" doesn't go there, not that I know of or would want to know of
30. Insurrection's other 2% is the Sona/Baku feud that you'd see on a daytime talk show
31. To enjoy this film, one has to turn off one's brain. Data has an easier job in doing that
32. How come Data can stay afloat in water?
33. Why did the cloaked transport ship need to be on the planet's surface if everybody was going to be beamed into it?
34. Never mind launching it from the planet into space for quite the fun awakening if they're all being abducted while sleeping so what's the POINT of it if the goal was to transport the lot of them somewhere and then do a Dark Helmet and laugh "Fooled you, ha ha!" as they start to age?
35. Which means the 98% of the movie revolving around magical radiation to save people's lives was addressing itself as already being pointless without the need of Geordi still needing optic implants again in "Nemesis". The moment you leave you're SOL anyway so bottling and selling it wouldn't have made any difference
36. Anij and Data, if sitting on a tree and k-i-s-s-i-n-g, would quickly understand what Isaac Newton's apple went through, given Data's mass as applied onto the branch as weight
37. To enjoy this film, one has to turn off one's brain. Data has an easier job in doing that
38. See 31 and 37, cubed.
Other than that, some action dogfight scenes are pretty good but the plot is a mess. But I'm tempted to scope out SF Debris and Red Letter Media to re-view their critiques - after getting some pizza roles; they covered more plotholes and problems than what I remember. It's been a couple years now...
Face it, the movie is more convoluted than 98% of my posts.
Only more contrived than 247% of my posts.
We already knew the effects were limited to when you were there. Otherwise the Son'a would have still looked the same and would have had no reason for their whole dastardly plan in the first place.
Not true.
I'm not totally sure I get what this means?
What has that got to do with the Prime Directive? Plus, so steamy that they never kiss!
Not true, although I can see why it keeps coming up again and again.
I agree with most of your other points though. Strongly in some cases.
I don't dislike it. I reserve that "honor" for Star Trek: Nemesis and Star Trek Into Darkness. With STID, I was trying hard -- and failing -- not to laugh all through the second half. You can ask my brother who I went to see it with. After a certain point, I couldn't take the movie seriously anymore. I was trying my best to hold it together during scenes I knew were supposed to be serious; but back to Insurrection.
Insurrection is just kind of... there.
It wants to be an action-comedy but it was pitched as something more serious. The problem is we're supposed to care about the Son'a and the Baku and I really don't. So it's hard to get invested when Picard melodramatically says, "How many people does it take, Admiral?!" I think some of the lines were written just because they knew it would look good in the trailer. "No uniform, no orders." "Saddle up, lock and load." "NEEYAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!"
When I look at the cast, it looks like they just want to hang out. It's more like, "Hey! We're doin' another one!" And that's the vibe I get. They're just a little too super-relaxed, like they forgot the camera was on... (using Announcer Voice) Until it's time for a line in the Trailer!
On the other hand, I like the playful soundtrack and I always wondered what would taste good with chrysanthemums.
Insurrection is just kind of... there.
It wants to be an action-comedy but it was pitched as something more serious. The problem is we're supposed to care about the Son'a and the Baku and I really don't. So it's hard to get invested when Picard melodramatically says, "How many people does it take, Admiral?!" I think some of the lines were written just because they knew it would look good in the trailer. "No uniform, no orders." "Saddle up, lock and load." "NEEYAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!"
When I look at the cast, it looks like they just want to hang out. It's more like, "Hey! We're doin' another one!" And that's the vibe I get. They're just a little too super-relaxed, like they forgot the camera was on... (using Announcer Voice) Until it's time for a line in the Trailer!
On the other hand, I like the playful soundtrack and I always wondered what would taste good with chrysanthemums.
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You've sparked two thoughts for me here!
1. The fact that you say that there are lines that seem specifically written for the trailer is spot-frigging-on. I totally agree, but never realized it in quite that way.
2. I dislike INS far more than NEM or ID simply because of exactly what you pointed out. INS was so painfully unremarkable that this is its biggest sin. At least NEM and ID were "glorious" failures in many fans minds. But you definitely can't argue that they are unremarkable. I'd rather a movie goes down swinging than just being lukewarm crapola like INS.
For me, I enjoy the movie enough, even though it IS underwhelming... my biggest complaint is how shoddy the special effects are. After seeing the gorgeous Enterprise-E model done for First Contact, why they decided to go with a crappy CGI Enterprise for Insurrection is beyond me. The end scene with the Enterprise speeding away from the planet is absolutely atrocious.
It's a very 'meh' film, especially coming after First Contact.
Wern't ILM unavailable, and Paramount went with some cheap, third rate effects house?
If I recall, most of the film's budget went on building the Baku village set, and there was little left for anything else, including a decent script or a decent length film.
Son'a and Ba'ku - worst alien races names EVER.
Son'a is actually kind of fitting -- they are son'a ba'ku after all.
Not sure exactly how the costs broke down, but when you consider the costs that went into reshooting the ending after the producers decided they wanted Ru'afo blowed up real good instead of being de-aged into nothingness, Insurrection ended up as the most expensive of the original ten Trek films. Just by looking at it, though, you wouldn't think it was much more expensive than, say, Enterprise's pilot episode, which came along three years later and was six times cheaper.
It's my only Ace Card on these boards, sir ... to be used sparingly!There...see? Like I said...that meme is totally disarming!!!
Reasons:
1. Tries to feel like a TV episode but has Picard swinging around like John MaClane in Space. At least they have the magical radiation thing...
2. Magic radiation thing has characters wondering if the fixing-up properties are temporary. "Nemesis" quickly proves it is (thank Geordi), so "Insurrection" loses 98% of its point right off the bat because the goal was to collect the magic radiation to fix people up
3. Nor does it help that Worf is showing the gorch pimples/measles/herpes thing before they go into the briar patch
4. I see nothing wrong with the joystick, except it must have come from a primo arcade game
5. The "to hell with our orders" was done in the last movie and as a joke. Roger Ebert wasn't the only one who pointed out people wouldn't take it seriously this time.
6. Confused ethics
7. Sona are Baku's parents, who kick them out. The reasons for their separation aren't well-handled and, after thinking into it, the Baku are a bunch of jerks
8. Anij would have more of a fun time with Data
9. That Gilbert and Sullivan song... um...
10. Worf is back, no reason why, wasn't there a war going on with the Dominion or something?
11. Movie feels like a cast reunion party with alcohol served where they forget there's an audience that's noting all the binge drinking (the same thing is much worse in "First Contact")
12. Even if the magic radiation worked, there is absolutely no reason they couldn't set up a hotel on the other side of the planet and get Gilligan and the other castaways to run it.
13. Really forced dialogue. "Hey, you notice your boobies have firmed up? Not that we care about that sort of thing in this day and age." (Makes even the clunkiest, sculpted dialogue in "The Neutral Zone" feel more authentic and less contrived by comparison.)
14. Anij would have had more fun with Data
15. Magical radiation has no effect on anybody until after puberty kicks in. Isn't that nice?
16. When they hired Anthony Zerbe, did they bother looking up to see if he played villains who got their heads blown up in their death scenes? But if a Trek fan isn't a James Bond fan or vice-versa, then it's okay.
17. The white waiter uniforms were a mistake
18. "The ends justify the means" makes no sense when the numbers involved render the point moot
19. How can Anij slow down time? The magic radiation makes them all immortal (but only after puberty sets in)
20. They can have kids but they don't have many. Along with warp technology, or any technology, do we really want to ask about population control methods? This magic radiation doesn't do other things we don't know about? Apart from slowing down time at will, apparently.
21. Which goes right back to "Only 600 people and they can't go to the other side of the planet to open up the spa to heal everyone"
22. Imagine if this film had more solid dialogue and a solid plot. F Murray Abraham's Ru'afo might truly be in the ranks of Kirk, Chang, etc. As it stands, he elevates mediocre dialogue unworthy of TNG.
23. Kinda surprised Picard goes against the Prime Directive, in forming a steamy relationship with Anij
24. Anij would have had much more fun with Data, especially since she can slow down time
25. Did they run out of time in the post-production room? The Collector sets are all unfinished blue-screen.
26. Who the heck puts a self-destruct button on something that amounts to a gigantic butterfly net?! And WHY?!!
27. The movie doesn't know when to be a TV episode and when to be big epic flick, as nummerous scenes flip-flop on
28. How come the bridge viewscreen is now a permanent fixture when, in the previous movie, it shimmied on and off when needed.
29. A "fountain of youth" idea is pretty cheesy to begin with, especially when it plays God with magic inconsistent, convoluted, ultimately ineffective, nonsense radiation - Even "Star Wars" doesn't go there, not that I know of or would want to know of
30. Insurrection's other 2% is the Sona/Baku feud that you'd see on a daytime talk show
31. To enjoy this film, one has to turn off one's brain. Data has an easier job in doing that
32. How come Data can stay afloat in water?
33. Why did the cloaked transport ship need to be on the planet's surface if everybody was going to be beamed into it?
34. Never mind launching it from the planet into space for quite the fun awakening if they're all being abducted while sleeping so what's the POINT of it if the goal was to transport the lot of them somewhere and then do a Dark Helmet and laugh "Fooled you, ha ha!" as they start to age?
35. Which means the 98% of the movie revolving around magical radiation to save people's lives was addressing itself as already being pointless without the need of Geordi still needing optic implants again in "Nemesis". The moment you leave you're SOL anyway so bottling and selling it wouldn't have made any difference
36. Anij and Data, if sitting on a tree and k-i-s-s-i-n-g, would quickly understand what Isaac Newton's apple went through, given Data's mass as applied onto the branch as weight
37. To enjoy this film, one has to turn off one's brain. Data has an easier job in doing that
38. See 31 and 37, cubed.
Other than that, some action dogfight scenes are pretty good but the plot is a mess. But I'm tempted to scope out SF Debris and Red Letter Media to re-view their critiques - after getting some pizza roles; they covered more plotholes and problems than what I remember. It's been a couple years now...
Face it, the movie is more convoluted than 98% of my posts.
2) It's specifically mentioned in dialog by Dr. Crusher that "the Son'a would require exposure for 10 years in order to reverse their symptoms, but many of them wouldn't make it that long."
5) Who said the line was meant as a joke in First Contact? Data certainly didn't seem to be kidding around (even without his emotion chip not being online), unlike the certain levity Spock had in TUC saying the similar "go to hell" line.
10) Likely bereavement leave. A deleted bit of dialog for Picard had him giving his condolences to Worf on Jadzia's death.
12) As bitter as Rua'fo was, you really think he'd simply just build a spa? He was the cast-out son, wanting to get back at his elders.
15) Welcome to the wonderful world of plot devices, also used in Miri.
16) What does the world of James Bond matter to Star Trek?
19) It's not meant to be a literal slowing down of time, it's an artistic choice. These are movies, after all.
20) Doesn't matter to the plot of the movie.
21) See 12.
23) How is it a violation of the Prime Directive if he has a relationship with Anij? Doesn't the Prime Directive actually refer to non-interference with the development of pre-warp cultures, which we find out that the Ba'ku definitely were not.
24) Not sure if serious.
25) What's your proof that that's not how Herman Zimmerman designed the sets to look?
26) Welcome to the wonderful world of plot devices.
28) How many times did the refit Enterprise bridge design change over the course of 6 movies? How many times did the design of the Enterprise-D's battle bridge change in 7 years?
29) You can suspend disbelief on warp drive, something that's not possible through general relativity, but radiation that has the potential to slow/reverse the aging process is totally unbelievable?
31) I don't know, I have no problems watching it with my brain on.
32) Mentioned in dialog, "in the event of a water landing, I have been designed to serve as a flotation device." Again, with all the other stuff we've seen Data being capable of in the previous 10 years, him being able to float is the least of our worries.
33) Since it seems much of what was being done on the planet was through subterfuge, cloaking it on the planet gave it another layer of security. Also probably made it easier for the technicians constructing the holodeck program of the village to easily observe the environment and quickly get back to revise the program.
34) See 33.
35) See 2.
36) Not sure if serious.
Don't listen to these haters of the movie, like i don't really give a shit and i just enjoy it.
Just like i enjoy ENT and Voyager, tbh i enjoy all of them and don't have a favourite.
I've just not watched TOS yet.
Just like i enjoy ENT and Voyager, tbh i enjoy all of them and don't have a favourite.
I've just not watched TOS yet.
I enjoy the "Gilbert & Sullivan" routine. The rest of the story is very badly constructed. Picard violates orders either two or three times before he even knows what is going on.
The movie even seems worse after reading Michael Piller's "Making of..." book.
The movie even seems worse after reading Michael Piller's "Making of..." book.
