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Spoilers Twice Upon a Time grading and discussion thread

How do you rate Twice Upon a Time?


  • Total voters
    115
I watched it with subtitles, and during the scene where the Doctor's memories are shown, there's a subtitle that seems more Trekian than Whovian: Resistance is futile. Was that phrase actually used in Who? I'm more familiar with the Cybermen using "resistance is useless." Did anyone else watching the subtitles see this? Is that what was said? I occasionally have trouble making out dialogue on TV, so I have the subtitles on.
 
I had subtitles on the second time I watched it, and although I missed the ‘futile’ line, I did read ‘You will be assimilated’ in a Cyberman voice at that scene.
 
My god, Capaldi's last speech was pretentious bollocks. I hope they ban the new doctor from anything like it, ever.

Otherwise the episode was fine.
 
The 2017 Christmas special, where the Twelfth Doctor is refusing to regenerate, and meets the First Doctor. A quite interesting and poignant story, but there are some missteps. But, despite those missteps it was quite enjoyable. More on those later. The beginning scene, with the merging from the footage from The Tenth Planet, was done in a very effective way. The meeting between the two Doctors and the British Army Captain was done quite well also. More on the Captain, and his link to earlier Who, below.
The investigation into the frozen time (what there is of it) the the subsequent meeting with the glass people/Testimony was done very well. Of course, the Testimony doesn't tell the Doctors what they do. Their lack of communication leads to most of the story in this episode. Was this one of the missteps. No, but first, the Doctor's reaction to Bill (or rather Testimony!Bill) was what one would expect of him. He had lost his friend, and wants to be sure that it is her, after what had happened previously.
What is a misstep, certainly, is characterising the First Doctor as a bigot. That's not very consistent with the way Hartnell portrayed him. (Not really explainable by the withholding of regeneration either, the Twelfth's personality didn't change.) The Twelfth deciding to find a database to match the Non-computer generated glass interface of the Testimony was an interesting development in the story. Meeting 'Rusty' again in order to gain access to the Dalek group database was certainly a surprise, but not gratuitous.
The ending at the Christmas Truce of 1914 was very poignant, as was the reveal of the Captain being the Brigadier's grandfather. The appearances of Clara and Nardole were also a great moment. The regeneration may have been drawn out, but the brief appearance of the Thirteenth Doctor was well done. 8.5/10.
 
I think the Lethbridge-Stewart thing is that his survival doesn't really change history (he already had sons, and he's AGLS's great uncle rather than his grandfather anyway, at the insistence of Haisman/Lincoln, and those publishing books based on their copyright).
But possibly uncle Archie told little Alasdair about his encounter with a time-travelling police boxes. Which might explain why the Colonel is unusually open to the notion that the TARDIS is a time ship, and also perhaps why the Doctor was unusually fast to tell him about it.

Basically, though Archie doesn't consciously remember the adventure- as they said in the episode.
 
Am I crazy or did the Doctor's ring fall off her right hand and land to the left of her left foot? (Was the hand close-up flipped accidentally or something?)
 
I would agree that Clara stayed perhaps a series too long and should have exited at that years Christmas special.

But it might just be me but I think Moffat has a hard time saying goodbye to his companions.

Well no more than RTD did, you could argue he finds it easier than RTD. I mean Billiw isn't in Season 3 but how many times if Rose mentioned? And then she comes back in season 4, and then comes back again for the regeneration. Martha came back in season 4, and then came back for the rebeneration as well.

"Oh brilliant."

Or possibly a more Yorkshire "Aw brilliant!" :lol:

I honestly don't get the love for Elba. Yes, he's a good actor, but I don't see him as a fit for the Doctor.

Yeah I've been a huge fan of Elba's since Ultraviolet but he's never remotely struck me as a Doctor, Bond maybe (though too old now) but the Doctor? Nah.
 
This was fantastic. It had a few problems (The 1st Doctor's bad attitudes toward women was played up too much, it was a product of TV at the time but as a Timelord that attitude makes no damn sense and should have just been ignored, not made worse then it actually was on the show back in the day) but I still really enjoyed the episode. Bradley was great as the 1st Doctor. He wasn't an exact copy, but I'm glad he didn't just try to imitate Hartnell but also did his own thing, which still felt very much like the 1st Doctor to me.

I knew that WW1 officer was going to be the Brigadier's Dad, but it worked, as did fitting the Christmas Armistice into the story. Having the testament group not be evil was a nice twist (before we learned what it was I did think for a second that the glass women was going to be a "Watcher" for the 12th Doctor's regeneration). I really liked seeing 12 and the 1st Doctor interacting, especially with things like The 1st Doctor seeing the new TARDIS. The way they had Bill and nardole show up was alright, and I'm glad the Doctor doesn't have Clara-nesia anymore.

The end regeneration scene was good. Yeah, the speech went on a bit too long but the last scene on the battlefield was emotional and the actual regeneration was cool. I'm curious how the 13th Doctor is going to survive falling from so high (maybe the regeneration energy will heal her? We know from the 4th Doctor that timelords are generally not immune to height).

Overall this was a really good special. Not my favorite regeneration scene (nothing will beat 11's regeneration), but its a bit better as a story then Time of The Doctor, and its just overall a great way to end the 12th Doctor's era. His stories were a mixed bag, but I really did enjoy Capaldi a lot in the role. He's hoping that Whittaker gets better stories on average then Capaldi did, and I'm excited to see what happens.
 
Am I crazy or did the Doctor's ring fall off her right hand and land to the left of her left foot? (Was the hand close-up flipped accidentally or something?)

No, it was from her left hand. The previous shot was from behind the Doctor, and the shot of her hand was taken from the front, palm facing the console; in the previous shot her left hand lowers, allowing the ring to fall off. It's actually a classic lesson in editing that you should keep the viewer's perspective when cutting shots like this. The eye sees her right hand in the previous shot, making the mind think it's the right hand when it jump cuts to a similar perspective close in. There should have been a transitioning shot to her left hand lowering, or they should have used a different angle from the wide shot.

Mark
 
My god, Capaldi's last speech was pretentious bollocks. I hope they ban the new doctor from anything like it, ever.
Pretentious monologues have basically been a staple of the Moffat era. Some other infamous monologue moments include Name of the Doctor where Clara monologues for two and a half minutes about entering the Doctor's timestream before actually doing it, the season 8 finale in which the climax more or less consists of the Doctor and Missy delivering monologues at each other, Face the Raven in which Clara monologues while waiting for a Raven to cross the road and kill her and Hell Bent which turns into exclusively monologues for the last half of the episode.

About the only positive thing I have to say about Moffat Monologues is they weren't anywhere near as bad or as misplaced as the monologues in Class.

But yes, as I've said before, I also hope Chibnall also bans monologues. There's hope, for Jodie Whitaker's post-regeneration scene, the only dialogue Chibnall wrote for her was one word. When Moffat wrote Matt Smith's post-regeneration scene he wrote much more. Much more.
 
Oh man just got through sifting through the thread. Lot's of great insights and comments! Personally, I enjoyed this Christmas special very much although I felt like it was really carried by the performances rather than being a solid story. Everything just kind of happens, but watching Capaldi in his last romp was great. Partway through the episode I was worried that Bill and the Doctor wouldn't get a good moment together where she puts him in his place, but thankfully, they had a good moment together where she puts him in his place. I was pretty drained with the Capaldi era towards the end of this past season (but not with Capaldi or Bill themselves, mind you, just the episodes) and it took this moment for me to realize how much I absolutely missed them together.

I've not seen much of the classic era of Who so I have no frame of reference on the performance Hartnell, but I enjoyed him a hell of a lot. Honestly, I'm going to say that I laughed out loud at maybe half of the sexism jokes and cringed at the other half. Capaldi's reaction to them might bump them up a few points, but I was more amused at the meta-commentary on the backlash to casting a female Doctor.

Was pretty surprised to see Rusty, and after I actually remembered who the heck Rusty was, I decided I'd probably have to go back and watch that episode again before my rewatch of the Christmas special to solidify my opinion.

I'm in the 'enjoyed seeing Clara again' crowd. It was nice, it was "necessary" based on tradition, but it also looked goofy as hell. I'm not bothered that she didn't get to be physically there given the importance that 'memory' has as a theme in the story, but they could have chosen a better way to green screen her in. To be honest, it was so weird looking I actually thought for a moment they were using archive footage of her and just sticking her in there with some ADR.

I'm also confused by some of the minor details of having Bill and Nardole in the story. Personally, I've felt that Moffat stories are a bit confusing as far as the little details of how things come to be. Is this projection of Bill grabbed by Testament of her before she turns into the sentient oil? Does this mean that Testament records her 'human' death and she still lives on in another form with the oil girl? Or did she like...actually die and Bill is sufficiently dead. Also, is the Nardole we see one that got to live a long life and died tragically on that space station? Or did he die shortly after the Doctor left him? I don't even really understand that entire ending to begin with to be honest. I'm guessing the answer is "maybe? both? neither?". I know it doesn't really matter as they are just there to help tell the story, but I guess it'd be nice to know something more concrete.

And Capaldi's final speech was ridiculous. I love him to pieces, but that speech managed to be even goofier than Smith's. The things he was saying were very pretty, but it just took me out of the story that he was actually speaking them. SO long winded and overly poetic. I couldn't believe he was writhing in pain but still managing to do laps around the Tardis. I was hoping that speech would be maybe a third that long, and end with him with his hands across the console in a hunch and jerking his head up to give that closeup Capaldi stare to mirror the stare we got in DoTD. It would have been a nice callback if they weren't going to actually show him going to Gallifrey and being part of that battle, followed by the standard face/armsplosion. But instead he was able to dictate an 8 page speech and circle the control room what seemed like two or three circuits, lol. Now that I think about it, I'm genuinely sad that we didn't get a Capaldi closeup stare during the final speech at all. Dammit.

But it was still a wonderful episode. Ranked much, much higher for me than Mysterio or Husbands. Might be a tie with Last Christmas. I can't wait for the show to return. It always seems like the Doctor comes back for five minutes and then we have to wait a year to see him (and now her) again.
 
The only thing I hated was the writing of Danny Pink. Not Samuel Anderson's fault by any measure, but the character was just horrible and the only time I didn't want to scream at him was his denouement in "Last Christmas."

I had no problem with Danny Pink. I had a problem with how the Doctor reacted to Danny Pink. Second time he's got a white female companion with a black male partner, second time the Doctor's a complete asshole to the black male partner. At least this time there's the (frankly rather stupid) "I hate soldiers" excuse. Producers should probably think these things through a bit better.

Because she became so f@#king smug and was smacked upside the head by hubris in the end. She was around much too long.

Well, we've certainly never seen smug companions before. Certainly not Amy or Rose. Absolutely not.
 
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