Spoilers THE ORVILLE S1, E12: "MAD IDOLATRY" - SEASON FINALE

I believe the argument is,

anti-theist actively believes there is no god
atheist does not believe there is or isn't

the idea that atheist wouldn't qualify as a belief, as technically there is no fact to believe or deny.

 

Again, you persist in being categorically wrong about atheism. A lack of a thing, CANNOT, by definition, be that very thing. Atheism is not anything. It is an absence of a thing. None of your rationalizations can make it otherwise.

 

It's okay. Even if you don't believe in Him, God still believes in you! Can I get an Amen?

 

Amen!

 

Well, this thread went south quite a while ago. Booooooring. Bickering way too long with no end in sight.

 

Dictionary definition of atheism:

a·the·ism
ˈāTHēˌizəm/
noun

1. disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

 

By that definition I'd say antitheism is a subset of atheism.

 

I believe in science and the natural world. Just my observation leaves open the possibility of some kind of divine being. How big a grain of doubt defines the difference between an atheist and an agnositc?

I've never heard this term anti-theism. Is that just an atheist who is a dick to theists?

 

I would think that the minute it can accurately be said that you're open to the possibility that a higher power exists then you're an agnostic, not an atheist.

 

This is the 21st century. Everybody sucks.

There's a non-zero possibility that there's a supreme being, but it's so close to zero as to make no difference. There's a non-zero possibility that I'm actually an intelligent trilobite on Venus and just dreaming of my life as an intelligent ape on Earth, but it's so close to zero as to make no difference. I don't waste time worrying that either might be true. I am both an atheist and an avenusiantrilobitist.

 

Please don't organize atheism. Organized religion is bad enough.

 

Not really.

I'm not one to argue with "it's possible;" I've no reason to rule out possibilities.

I see no reason at all to think it's so.

I'm an atheist.

 

Excellent series from about 2003-05. Amber Tamblin plays a high school girl who God appears to, and gives seemingly random tasks that end up having a point at the end. God appears as totally random normal people she runs into. There are maybe 1/2 dozen regular God people, but there were a few dozen random ones in all over the series. The amazing thing is that it's so good (mainly due to Amber), that even though I'm an agnostic who hates organized religion, I love the show.

 

Nothing wrong with people organizing their worship or fellowship. Nothing wrong with organized religion. Organized religion applies to billions of people. Such a broad stroke, and so often slung around.

 

Besides, I wouldn't say calling antitheism a subset of atheism any more "organizing" than I would if I said homosexuality is a subset of non-heterosexuality. This isn't "organizing" with the negative connotations that are implied, it's simply how these things seem to make logical sense based on their definitions.

 

Thank God this is an episode thread, not the series thread. I think I'm going to "unfollow" it. See 'ya next season.....

 

You know, it's a discussion about belief and religion taking place in a topic about an episode that explicitly addressed questions of belief and religion and took a stand on it.

Star Trek used to do that. Trek fans used to discuss things like that in topics devoted to episodes that did that.

Well, Trek's been irrelevant to the real world for so long now that I guess the muscles have atrophied, hmm?

So, I suppose we could...I dunno, go on and speculate about how the Moclan parasite drink works instead. Or make jokes about peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.

Or maybe debate the ethics of using a giant tardigrade to power your FTL drive. There's a burning question. Star Trek!

 

Or the Moclan digestive system in general. We know they only take a piss once a year, but how often do they take a crap?

 

Shruggles. Stating something repeatedly isn't going to negate logic for you.

Re: "A lack of a thing, CANNOT, by definition, be that very thing."
Nice red herring. I'm not saying that atheism is not atheism. I'm saying that believing something doesn't exist is, gasp, a belief. It's takes a lot of mental gymnastics to deny something that straight forward!

Atheists might not like the idea that they have beliefs, which is pretty funny actually. But, yes, you can have a belief that something doesn't exist. D'oh, that's not hard to figure out. Just because it is a belief that something doesn't exist does not negate the fact that you believe it doesn't exist.

Great quote by the way, "Atheism is not anything." If it's not anything, why so touchy?! Seems like it is something!

Re: "It is an absence of a thing."
Yep, you believe in that absence. Again, it's a belief. Atheism is an affirmation that a supreme being doesn't exist. You've stated previously that atheism doesn't require evidence, which ironically only pushes it further into the belief category!

If there were evidence, I'd grant you that it's more a statement of fact (in that case) rather than a belief.

It's believers that don't require evidence. As you say, atheists don't require evidence--which only proves the case that atheism is a belief!

If atheists truly had a lack of a belief about the matter, then when asked about the existence of god, they'd answer "I don't know"--because they had no belief in the matter.

 

Yes, agnostics accept that uncertainty. That there is no conclusive evidence either way. Atheists and theists don't have that uncertainty. That have a belief one way or the other about a higher being.

Once you have that uncertainty, yes, you can see how a higher power might exist, or maybe not.