ah.
I've never read a Green Arrrow comic so didn't realised she had a comic book origin.
Spoilers Arrow - Season 6
- Thread starter dahj
- Start date
ah.
I've never read a Green Arrrow comic so didn't realised she had a comic book origin.
Marc,
If you're ever inclined, I recommend checking out the Mike Grell run, which I think had a big impact on the Arrow show. Grell even did a cameo in season 1 as a judge. If I recall, I think Shado and Fyers were both introduced during the Grell run.
I also enjoyed Kevin Smith and Phil Hester's Green Arrow comics. And Jeff Lemire-especially his first couple New 52 books-were just awesome. Things got muddled as he went into the mythology behind his take on Green Arrow and then it felt rushed just as he was reintroducing Richard Dragon (Lemire's version is who they are basing the television version on somewhat).
I haven't read all of the Grell, Smith, or Hester runs I don't think, but I' ve read enough of each to feel confident in my judgments.
I'm iffy on the current writer Ben Percy. I like some of the stuff he's done, with the Ninth Circle (Arrow's own Court of Owls) and for bringing back Oliver's liberalism, but his writing can be uneven, and I'm not a fan of the art style for the Rebirth book, it's too cartoony.
In my list of mishandled villains, I forgot Count Vertigo. I thought when they recast him we were going to get a more comic accurate version, but if I recall, he came off like a Scarecrow clone just like the first attempt at Vertigo was a Heath Ledger-Joker clone.
If you're ever inclined, I recommend checking out the Mike Grell run, which I think had a big impact on the Arrow show. Grell even did a cameo in season 1 as a judge. If I recall, I think Shado and Fyers were both introduced during the Grell run.
I also enjoyed Kevin Smith and Phil Hester's Green Arrow comics. And Jeff Lemire-especially his first couple New 52 books-were just awesome. Things got muddled as he went into the mythology behind his take on Green Arrow and then it felt rushed just as he was reintroducing Richard Dragon (Lemire's version is who they are basing the television version on somewhat).
I haven't read all of the Grell, Smith, or Hester runs I don't think, but I' ve read enough of each to feel confident in my judgments.
I'm iffy on the current writer Ben Percy. I like some of the stuff he's done, with the Ninth Circle (Arrow's own Court of Owls) and for bringing back Oliver's liberalism, but his writing can be uneven, and I'm not a fan of the art style for the Rebirth book, it's too cartoony.
In my list of mishandled villains, I forgot Count Vertigo. I thought when they recast him we were going to get a more comic accurate version, but if I recall, he came off like a Scarecrow clone just like the first attempt at Vertigo was a Heath Ledger-Joker clone.
I like it that they really committed to the post-wedding reception scene at the beginning, devoting a good 10 minutes to strictly character business and celebration. It's nice to see an action show have the confidence to slow things down like that and focus on drama for a while. And I guess it helps balance out the abruptness of Ollie and Felicity's wedding last week.
Still, it meant that the rest of the episode got a little truncated. A couple of things could've stood more development. Oliver seemed a little quick to jump to "I've been betrayed!," and it's hard to believe that Diggle would be okay with putting the junior team members -- who by this point are more his team than Oliver's -- under surveillance like that. I mean, it's a little arrogant of Oliver to make such sweeping decisions affecting the future of the team when he purportedly sees himself as temporarily filling in until Diggle's well again. Some of this felt like the hand of the writers pushing the players into position for the big cliffhanger crisis, rather than an organic outgrowth of the situation and characters. Although I did really like Thea's speech to Ollie about seeing Rene's side. I'm glad Thea's back.
It also would've been nice if they'd had more than one scene to establish Quentin getting through emotionally to Black Siren. It felt a little too convenient because they had to make it happen so compactly.
So... We've been talking about how there were too many separate villains this season, and now it turns out they aren't separate at all. Cayden has built his own little Legion of Doom -- Black Siren, Anatoly, Vigilante, and Ricardo "Dragon" Diaz. (And whoever that guy was on James's left -- was he someone we should've recognized?) Which would be more effective if they'd done more than one previous episode to establish Diaz as a threat. Also, this is the second Arrowverse show lately where the evil genius has hidden a camera in the heroes' lair to watch their every move. The good guys should really be doing routine bug sweeps.
And while the villains are forming a team, the heroes' team has split in half. It looks like the junior threesome will be forming their own separate team when the show returns, at least on a temporary basis. Team Terrific? Better than Team Canary or Team Dog. Or, ooh, how about "The Terrific Trio?"
By the way, about last week, it just now occurred to me to wonder -- how come Ollie was able to go to Central City for the wedding when he was out on bail using half a million dollars of Felicity's startup money? Doesn't being out on bail usually come with a requirement not to leave town? And Ollie didn't just leave town, he left the planet for a couple of days.
Still, it meant that the rest of the episode got a little truncated. A couple of things could've stood more development. Oliver seemed a little quick to jump to "I've been betrayed!," and it's hard to believe that Diggle would be okay with putting the junior team members -- who by this point are more his team than Oliver's -- under surveillance like that. I mean, it's a little arrogant of Oliver to make such sweeping decisions affecting the future of the team when he purportedly sees himself as temporarily filling in until Diggle's well again. Some of this felt like the hand of the writers pushing the players into position for the big cliffhanger crisis, rather than an organic outgrowth of the situation and characters. Although I did really like Thea's speech to Ollie about seeing Rene's side. I'm glad Thea's back.
It also would've been nice if they'd had more than one scene to establish Quentin getting through emotionally to Black Siren. It felt a little too convenient because they had to make it happen so compactly.
So... We've been talking about how there were too many separate villains this season, and now it turns out they aren't separate at all. Cayden has built his own little Legion of Doom -- Black Siren, Anatoly, Vigilante, and Ricardo "Dragon" Diaz. (And whoever that guy was on James's left -- was he someone we should've recognized?) Which would be more effective if they'd done more than one previous episode to establish Diaz as a threat. Also, this is the second Arrowverse show lately where the evil genius has hidden a camera in the heroes' lair to watch their every move. The good guys should really be doing routine bug sweeps.
And while the villains are forming a team, the heroes' team has split in half. It looks like the junior threesome will be forming their own separate team when the show returns, at least on a temporary basis. Team Terrific? Better than Team Canary or Team Dog. Or, ooh, how about "The Terrific Trio?"
By the way, about last week, it just now occurred to me to wonder -- how come Ollie was able to go to Central City for the wedding when he was out on bail using half a million dollars of Felicity's startup money? Doesn't being out on bail usually come with a requirement not to leave town? And Ollie didn't just leave town, he left the planet for a couple of days.
Also, they used Barry and Iris as the witnesses, which further places them outside the city limits for the marriage ceremony. I don't think they thought that one through.
Well, that's the thing -- as long as the defendant doesn't jump bail and meets all their required court appearances, the person who puts up the bail money gets it back. It's like a security deposit. So Felicity would only lose the money if Oliver were determined to have skipped bail. Which would give Oliver a powerful incentive not to leave Star City. So that's why I'm wondering how he could go to a wedding in another city while he was out on bail.
Then again, from skimming over the Wikipedia article on bail, it seems that maybe the "don't leave town" thing is more a fictional trope than a reality; the important thing is that the defendant shows up on the trial date. And as we saw at Oliver's arraignment, Jean Loring (his lawyer) convincingly argued that Oliver isn't a flight risk due to his mayoral and parental responsibilities -- though maybe the judge wasn't that convinced, seeing as how he set the bail so high.
It still qualifies as financial fraud even if she plans to put the money back. She's playing with fire (especially as the now-wife of a man under intense scrutiny from the FBI, local law enforcement, and the media).
Well, we've spent the past five and a half years watching Felicity illegally hack countless computer systems and cooperate in extensive extralegal vigilantism, not to mention misallocating a lot of PalmerTech resources for Team Arrow. So bending the letter of the law for the good of the team is hardly a new thing for our Ms. Smoak (Mrs. Smoak-Queen?).
True. This one seems particularly reckless, though.
By the way, I'm a little disappointed that that gathering of villains at the end there didn't include Agent Watson. I guess she's not part of the evil conspiracy after all, unless she's an extra-secret part. She could be an unknowing pawn that James is using to manipulate events, though.
Or team Arrow knows they are being monitored, and its their plan to split up.
Now Dinah can maybe infiltrate team doom via her ex boyfriend?
Now Dinah can maybe infiltrate team doom via her ex boyfriend?
After three good to great(Beebo! 
) winter finales this was... underwhelming.
The whole team conflict seems contrived and hinged on everyone acting against everything they've learned over the last year, especially Rene and Oliver.
The villain conspiracy also feels contrived, both in the group of people involved, and that they're apparently united against Oliver for some unknown reason.
Anatoly and Diaz are "businessmen" who run big criminal operations. That they would devote so much focus on fighting the guy who isn't even the Green Arrow anymore to cramp their operations seems weird.
Cayden James also has no known motivation to be so personally against Oliver. The story he told seems a fakeout like everything else he's been doing (which isn't helping his menace factor because everything he is doing seems rather arbitrary instead of calculated.)
Black Siren is again just working as a henchwoman for the Big Bad for no reason and no interest of her own.
And then there's Vigilante, the guy who was established as hating all baddies to the point of indiscriminately killing them, who now works with a bunch of villains because...
?
That whole scene felt like after a rather unfocused opening of the season the writers were trying to say "trust us, we have a plan", while in fact they don't actually have a plan.
Still, the team split is a decent concept, even if getting there felt forced it could lead to some interesting stories and situations, and the eclectic group of villains may yet surprise once they develop them some. Here's hoping they do have a plan.
) winter finales this was... underwhelming.The whole team conflict seems contrived and hinged on everyone acting against everything they've learned over the last year, especially Rene and Oliver.
The villain conspiracy also feels contrived, both in the group of people involved, and that they're apparently united against Oliver for some unknown reason.
Anatoly and Diaz are "businessmen" who run big criminal operations. That they would devote so much focus on fighting the guy who isn't even the Green Arrow anymore to cramp their operations seems weird.
Cayden James also has no known motivation to be so personally against Oliver. The story he told seems a fakeout like everything else he's been doing (which isn't helping his menace factor because everything he is doing seems rather arbitrary instead of calculated.)
Black Siren is again just working as a henchwoman for the Big Bad for no reason and no interest of her own.
And then there's Vigilante, the guy who was established as hating all baddies to the point of indiscriminately killing them, who now works with a bunch of villains because...
?That whole scene felt like after a rather unfocused opening of the season the writers were trying to say "trust us, we have a plan", while in fact they don't actually have a plan.
Still, the team split is a decent concept, even if getting there felt forced it could lead to some interesting stories and situations, and the eclectic group of villains may yet surprise once they develop them some. Here's hoping they do have a plan.
After watching that episode I’m ready for this to be the final season. I’m not going to stop watching but this finale made the series feel tired and just rehashing old plot points. Also Jame’s motivations feel weak. I did like the intimate talk between Siren and Lance though. More focus on that relationship in the second half.
He's Cayden James's right-hand man, whose name is not yet known but who's called "Boots" by the Arrowverse Wiki -- I'm guessing because he was the anonymous figure who rescued Black Siren from Lian Yu in the season premiere flashbacks, and the camera focused on his boots to hide his face.
So basically this is an alliance of three criminal organizations -- Helix, Anatoly's Bratva splinter, and Ricardo "Dragon" Diaz's group -- plus Black Siren and Vigilante as their field agents. Although it remains to be seen why Vigilante is with them when he seemed to be violently anti-crime last year.
I don't think we're supposed to know his true motivations yet. The alleged revenge motive against Green Arrow and the plot to blow up the city both feel like camouflage for whatever he's really up to.
Just watched the mid-season finale. I am surprised by how much I liked it. I haven't been a big fan of this season which I felt was unfocused. I'm also not a fan of Olicity so I wasn't jazzed about watching another wedding or wedding related ceremony. Thankfully the show didn't dwell on that. Instead it focused on the parts of the Oliver-Felicity, and Diggle as well, parts of the relationship I do like-the deep bonds of trust that have been forged over the years.
And it juxtaposed it against the bonds of trust that had formed between the newbies, as Curtis called them. I thought this was a really good way to fracture the team, by putting those bonds in conflict with each other.
This wasn’t another mid-season finale which relied on a big reveal or big showdown. Yes, the reveal was big of the villain alliance (which was pretty neat) but I’m talking more of how it was revealed. It felt a bit sedate, low-key, whereas I think other mid-season finales went for more explosive twists or reveals.
Not sure why Vigilante is part of James’s pact. I wish he was more of just a brutal vigilante instead of purposely evil. I think a bigger twist would’ve been Agent Watson joining that rogues’ lineup instead of Vigilante. (Though I'm perfectly fine with Watson just being a zealous agent; making her a villain would be something of a cop out, and a way to neatly get Oliver out of his present troubles). I do like that KGBeast and Richard Dragon are linked with James though. I think it helps both Dragon and James’. The alliance perhaps shows the overall weakness or lack of wow or pow factor for this season’s villains. Each preceding season had a big bad that was pretty strong to carry the season (though they also sometimes had notable assistants). This season, I don’t think that’s the case.
I’ve felt that this season it was like Oliver, Diggle, Felicity, and Dinah all had more personal villains or challenges. So, it is a nice twist that so many of those challenges are all connected.
I’m a little disappointed that KGBeast is involved, because I’ve enjoyed the frenemy relationship he’s had with Oliver, and I was hoping that despite it all that he wouldn’t fully turn villain on Oliver. But I guess it’s too late for that. But I’m still hoping that KGBeast has a change of heart, much like I think they’ve set up for Black Siren.
For the second week I’ve been impressed with Curtis’s development. I like that he’s being more assertive. I also thought Rene’s betrayal made sense and didn’t feel so much like a real betrayal due to his reasons. All right it was a nice mid-season finale that gave all the team some moments, as well as Thea, Lance, and Black Siren. Perhaps this was the best mid-season finale from an ensemble cast perspective.
As for overall mid-season finales, I rank them: Season 1, Season 2, Season 3, Season 5, Season 6, and Season 4. Though it’s second from the bottom for me, that’s no indication of its quality. Arrow just does mid-season finales very well.
And it juxtaposed it against the bonds of trust that had formed between the newbies, as Curtis called them. I thought this was a really good way to fracture the team, by putting those bonds in conflict with each other.
This wasn’t another mid-season finale which relied on a big reveal or big showdown. Yes, the reveal was big of the villain alliance (which was pretty neat) but I’m talking more of how it was revealed. It felt a bit sedate, low-key, whereas I think other mid-season finales went for more explosive twists or reveals.
Not sure why Vigilante is part of James’s pact. I wish he was more of just a brutal vigilante instead of purposely evil. I think a bigger twist would’ve been Agent Watson joining that rogues’ lineup instead of Vigilante. (Though I'm perfectly fine with Watson just being a zealous agent; making her a villain would be something of a cop out, and a way to neatly get Oliver out of his present troubles). I do like that KGBeast and Richard Dragon are linked with James though. I think it helps both Dragon and James’. The alliance perhaps shows the overall weakness or lack of wow or pow factor for this season’s villains. Each preceding season had a big bad that was pretty strong to carry the season (though they also sometimes had notable assistants). This season, I don’t think that’s the case.
I’ve felt that this season it was like Oliver, Diggle, Felicity, and Dinah all had more personal villains or challenges. So, it is a nice twist that so many of those challenges are all connected.
I’m a little disappointed that KGBeast is involved, because I’ve enjoyed the frenemy relationship he’s had with Oliver, and I was hoping that despite it all that he wouldn’t fully turn villain on Oliver. But I guess it’s too late for that. But I’m still hoping that KGBeast has a change of heart, much like I think they’ve set up for Black Siren.
For the second week I’ve been impressed with Curtis’s development. I like that he’s being more assertive. I also thought Rene’s betrayal made sense and didn’t feel so much like a real betrayal due to his reasons. All right it was a nice mid-season finale that gave all the team some moments, as well as Thea, Lance, and Black Siren. Perhaps this was the best mid-season finale from an ensemble cast perspective.
As for overall mid-season finales, I rank them: Season 1, Season 2, Season 3, Season 5, Season 6, and Season 4. Though it’s second from the bottom for me, that’s no indication of its quality. Arrow just does mid-season finales very well.
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I dunno, I wouldn't have minded if they kept all those villains separate and not tried to forcibly tie them all together. A season where there isn't a central Big Bad, and instead we had the Team fighting multiple threats and seen the personal and emotional toll it takes on them could have been a nice change of pace.
Fair point. However I can see strength in numbers, plus it allows the show to neatly wrap up all of the villain stories, if they want, by the end of the season. If they kept it with everyone fights multiple villains I think it would leave the season too unfocused. I think a show like Legends works better doing that than Arrow, Flash, or Supergirl. I also think the audience for the most part has become accustomed to their being a big bad or an overarching story that culminates (for the most part) in the season finale.
USwise, 18th January I think.
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