Tarantino and Abrams to Do Next Trek Movie

[Timewalker]

no offense, but who cares about the fact you made your points over the years? You are failing to make them here and now.

So I should regurgitate everything I said on the subject since 2009?

Why? You're spending a lot of time and effort typing at me, complaining about what my OPINIONS as though this is a court of law.

and this is a message board, we aren't talking about a book you wrote and pubblished years ago, so you tell people to go back and 'read it' if they want to know what happens or what you think. Let's be real.

Exactly. This is a message board. It has a search function. If you want to know what I said before, look it up. If you don't know how to use the search function, ask any moderator. I'm sure they can explain it to you. I see no reason to re-post everything again.

that was clear, and without reading your posting history. It begs the question about how you can make, then, claims about stuff happening in movies that you don't even remember.

I watched the third movie. I don't remember every last detail of it, and why should I? It wasn't that interesting, or I'd have remembered more about it. I do know that it doesn't change any of my views of the other two movies about Captain Frat Boy, nuSpock, and nuSpock's whiny girlfriend who occasionally functions as an officer while the CMO is worth nothing more than sitcom one-liners and coming up with a magic cure for death because there's no room to redo Search For Spock as well.

I don't dispute what you find funny or not. I dispute, though, your wanting to establish what and when that stuff is 'well-placed and executed' according to what you like or not. When the characters are 'allowed' to not be professional and when not. Doesn't work like that.

Oh, well, at least you're "allowing" me to find something funny. Thank you so much for that.

How hard is it to comprehend that nuUhura was unprofessional when she basically told her captain to shut up while she was engaged in berating her boyfriend while they were in the midst of a mission? NuKirk should have told her to save it for off-duty. He didn't. He meekly shut up like he was her lapdog.

And I too love that scene with Spock, but it can be argued that, according to your logic, he was being inappropriate with Pike, or at the very least, he shouldn't be such a smartass with his superior (and it wasn't the first time. Look at my signature^ ), especially not when he's reprimanding him and Kirk.

Yes, it was inappropriate. The fact that I found it funny doesn't mean it wasn't inappropriate. It's also not enough of a reason for me to jump on the "NuTrek is great!" bandwagon.

again, you keep assuming that those who reply to you must read your whole posting history before doing so. This is not your personal blog, we can only judge what you write here and now. There are tons of users in this board, how are we supposed to remember what everyone said before? How are we supposed to read it all.

It's called looking up someone's posting history and reading it, instead of expecting it to be handed to you time and again. I see you joined in 2012. If I wanted to know what you said back then, I'd look it up. I wouldn't demand you repeat it for me.

So obviously you missed 3 years' worth of my posts on this subject. Honestly, I don't spend much time in this section of the board, so it wouldn't take much effort to acquaint yourself with my views on nuTrek. But since that's too much like work, I'll summarize it here: NuTrek, in my opinion, is mostly crap. There are reasons, but since I'm not going to repeat everything here (and there are people posting in this section of the board who are familiar with my views of nuTrek and would very likely prefer not to see it all again), your option is to either look it up, drop me a PM so you can hear it without boring the regulars and mods who were around then, or just accept that I'm not going to spend much more of my lifespan on this particular issue.

The interesting juxtaposition in that scene is: while Kirk got on the best ship only thank to a relationship and favoritism (McCoy sneaking him aboard with him because they are friends), Uhura almost didn't get what she had actually earned with her academy accomplishments (that she lists, so you know them) because her ever so logical boyfriend overcompensated to not show favorism (or because he was concerned for her, like the novelization seemed to suggest).

I didn't read the novelization. NuTrek books are not welcome in my collection.

Yet, fandom will harpy on Uhura and project favoritism on her, but not on the male character who actually is advantaged by favoritism (by both McCoy and Pike), and thus personal relationships.

I have nothing against Uhura. I don't like nuUhura.

it's not like I don't want them to, but I have a feeling some people would complain it's 'ot' and wasting screentime if they were to give them off-duty moments (like they did with Kirk and Bones in Beyond).

If it enhances characterization and has some sort of connection to what's going on, there's nothing wrong with off-duty stuff.

Frankly, I don't think Uhura (and by consequence, her dynamic) can win for some people.

Her "dynamic"?

if i made a connection and some inner joke, it was purely accidental. I just mentioned the first tv-show (that I watched) that came to my mind where people constantly talk about their love life while they are at work.

There's a lot of that on American TV. I'm not American, though, and I didn't grow up on American TV shows, or at least not the sort where everyone is obsessed with their own and everyone else's love lives (with the exception of the soap opera my mother and grandmother watched; I'll grant you that soaps are a genre where it would be odd if people didn't obsess about their love lives at work).

here is the thing: if you make a post about x issue and only mention/attack one character, that you admit disliking, in spite of many others possibly fitting with your critique even more than said character, chances are some people might get the impression that you specifically criticize that character only and are making pretentious straw man arguments that, at the very least, are too partial.

How much plainer can it be that I don't like nuTrek, period? There's only one character in that franchise I can tolerate, and that's nuSulu. His characterization isn't radically different from that of Sulu as played by George Takei. I always liked Sulu, so this version isn't so bad. And no, we're not getting into the issue that made so many people flip out; I don't care about that either as it applies in RL or on-screen.

I'm not here to convince you about anything.
and if you think this trek iteration isn't as good as TOS it's fine, but I don't see how it's relevant to the topic.

Of course it's relevant. There are probably tens of thousands of posts on this forum alone that deal in some way as to which version of Star Trek they prefer - nuTrek or Prime.

uhm, I said it already. Your ulterior motive seems to be a preference for some characters over Uhura, as your comment hinted.

So you're not tap dancing around an accusation of racism? That's what it looked like.

again, I'm not trying to say it. I said it already. You are making straw man arguments against Uhura, specifically, because you don't like her.
what's more? the double standards some people in the fandom have for Uhura that might suggest sexism? Didn't 'hide' that 'accusation' either. I had always been pretty clear about that opinion of mine, even at the point of boring.

So you're accusing a female poster of being sexist regarding a female character?

Get back to me when nuKirk has a girlfriend serving on the ship, or nuMcCoy's wife shows up and joins the crew.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

except when this is what writers maybe do with white female characters, but Uhura is black and black women are hardly ever the love interest, let alone portrayed in a mutual loving relationship with the main guy like Uhura is.
In fact, a relationship between her and Spock, that was hinted as idea in tos too, became a possibility now for the first time in 50 years. In the original thing, Uhura didn't even have a first name, let alone a romance. The forced Kirk/Uhura kiss was as progressive as trek could be about interracial relationships (that in some countries were forbidden by law), and they almost couldn't even do that.
Your comment may actually come across as you basically making the argument that the reboot is bad for not keeping her character to the racist standards of the 60s. It's like you are saying they are bad for not denyind her, AGAIN, a romance and a personal life.. and because they didn't completely define her with the 'strong independent woman' stereotype that, frankly, is annoying and dehumanizing for female characters in general, let alone those who are part of minorities.
If dudes aren't 'weak' just because they have feelings and relationships, then women aren't either.

Again, McCoy is much more defined as 'the friend' than Uhura is as the girlfriend, but no one is complaining about that here. or elsewhere. You all WANT him to be defined by relationships, that's the only purpose he can have in the story according to some. So, please, for the love of everything that is holy, stop concern trolling about Uhura and her own relationship just because she isn't a 'bro'. That's pathetic.

In a thing like trek that is so much based on relationships, and those are so beloved to fans, it seems beyond ridiculous to harpy on another kind of relationship just because it wasn't in the original, and just because it isn't another friendship between boys.
Are we supposed to have interpersonal relationships getting represented by bromance only just because that's everything tos, in the 60s, allowed?
Who said that romantic relationships, and specifically the dynamic with Uhura, is less important or relevant to the story and the characters, and to humanize them to the audience, than friendships? It's just your own personal preference that, while legit, it means absolutely nothing in terms of wanting to establish what is 'needed' or not in the actual narrative, let alone what is 'needed' for the whole audience.


Lastly, the notion that a female character is automatically 'weak' and 'just the girlfriend' only because she has a romantic relationship is as sexist as that stuff you are projecting on the creative team. It's as sexist as the concept that a woman can have a purpose in the story only if she's a love interest.

The writers simply made a narrative choice. They wanted to elevate Uhura to the original trio level, and did that in the same way the original series elevated McCoy and Spock compared to the other secondary characters: by making them important to the main guy who was Kirk. THROUGH A RELATIONSHIP.
Making Spock and Uhura 'friends', though, wouldn't be, in this case, that new and groundbreaking for this trek. For one, trek doesn't 'lack' friendship dynamics, especially for Spock. It may be more 'new' for these characters to have a romantic relationship since they never had one in tos, and for reasons that in her case were connected to the racism AND sexism of the era too ( not to mention it's more challenging for Spock and creates a nice parallel with his father/parents that you can't have with the friendships that, again, he already had in tos). Secondly, she DOES have the friendship with Kirk anyway (and for him, to have a female friend might be as new and different as Spock having a girlfriend. In both cases, it isn't what the audience would expect by default due to their 'reputation'), but some of you just ignore it because you seem to be capable of paying attention to the dynamics only if they are 'bros' (even Scotty/Kirk is overinflated, by some, as a 'friendship' compared to Kirk/Uhura). Third: why the heck not?




she wasn't the nagging girlfriend, she just has agency in her relationship just like the dudes. This is all about how you choose to perceive the scene and reduce her character to. Not the writers.



I'll argue that in the scene the only damsel in distress, whose contribution to the action was completely useless, was KIRK, not Uhura. And Uhura is the only one in that mission whose unique skills seem to be at least used in a way that explains her presence there. Why were Kirk and Spock specifically needed there, by the way? what kind of skills they have, and what contribution they made to the mission, that other guys couldn't have easily replaced them? If we wanted to nitpick, both of them were emotionally compromised so they shouldn't even be there.

But the main issue of your argument is the notion that a scene showing a character being brave and using their skills is a failure just because the character's plan doesn't work. No offense, but it's silly. Not all the heroes succeed, a lot of them fail too.
It doesn't compute to you that, perhaps, the purpose of the scene is not showing that Uhura can do the impossible, but. rather, she is competent and that, in her group, she's the one who is willing to make an attempt and even sacrifice her life if only to give her crew mates more time, or try to give them a chance.
If they were to follow Kirk's idea to just get out and fire at the klingons, they'd be all dead by now. If anything, her scene is more in the 'trek' spirit because even if hopeless, she's using communication to try to resolve the situation like it's expected from a starfleet officer. And she's showing a lot of bravery. For someone who called her klingon rusty, thus not perfect, she not only speaks it flawlessly, even her body language suggests knowledge about that race on cultural level (e.g., her choice of words, the way she looks at the dude, Kirk could never replicate that with an universal translator)

but hey, it was so much better when she did a fan dance, or she used a dictionary to speak klingon. Or when she was definited only by her job (in a reality where women shouldn't even feel like they still need to make a choice), and never allowed to have romantic feelings for anyone.. unless she got manipulated by crazy mofos.

Ultimately I just don't buy her and Spock and worse don't see a lot of chemistry between Saldana and Quinto. Spock in ST09 is too much of a creepy asshole for me to believe she would be interested in him. So whatever justifications you make up don't really mean anything to me if the spark isn't there to make it compelling. That doesn't mean Uhura should just break out the old fan dance, but rather the writers should find something else that makes her stand out beyond her profession, or don't. I don't care as long as they make a movie that connects with me.

 

[Cinema Geekly]

R-Rated Trek coming your way.

http://deadline.com/2017/12/quentin...rew-pearce-lindsay-beer-jj-abrams-1202222161/

Can't say I'm really looking forward to this.

 

[Dukhat]

R-Rated Trek coming your way.

http://deadline.com/2017/12/quentin...rew-pearce-lindsay-beer-jj-abrams-1202222161/

Can't say I'm really looking forward to this.

All that means is that the next Trek movie can come up with some contrived reason to say the word “fuck” just like they did in Discovery.

 

[Cinema Geekly]

All that means is that the next Trek movie can come up with some contrived reason to say the word “fuck” just like they did in Discovery.

Generally speaking I don't mind the use of the word and I like most of QT's movies personally.

Maybe if they plan on once more rebooting the universe/making a new one..... Trek has a 50 year history of not really relying on R-Rated elements to tell their story. It will feel disjointed and out of place to me. A lot of people don't care about that sort of stuff but my brain is working against me on this one.

 

[F. King Daniel]

R-Rated Trek coming your way.

http://deadline.com/2017/12/quentin...rew-pearce-lindsay-beer-jj-abrams-1202222161/

Can't say I'm really looking forward to this.

It's gonna be different.

It's gonna be crazy.

I'm in.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

At this point what's left to lose? Go for it. Maybe it will kill the film series for awhile, but if I get an engaging movie out of it I'm totally okay with that. The movies always meant less to me than the TV shows anyway.

 

[MrPointy]

In.

I hope The Revenant writer gets the job and we get someone getting attacked by space bear.

 

[F. King Daniel]

In.

I hope The Revenant writer gets the job and we get someone getting attacked by space bear.

Or perhaps... a bear-sized tardigrade

 

[Borgminister]

It will be entitled "Kill Bill". Oh wait--they did that already in Generations... Never mind.

 

[BillJ]

R-Rated Trek coming your way.

http://deadline.com/2017/12/quentin...rew-pearce-lindsay-beer-jj-abrams-1202222161/

Can't say I'm really looking forward to this.

It can't be any worse than the Klingon titties in Discovery.

 

[plynch]

Not my cup of tea. Just b/c something is titled Star Trek doesn't get my auto-watch anymore. If it is about hope and the human adventure and has joy somehow suffusing it and isn't a bunch of action set-pieces, then maybe.

 

[flandry84]

Nothing could be worse than the last movie.
Have at it Quentin.

Maybe less Beastie boys and more 70’s obscura.

 

[MrPointy]

Remake Balance Of Terror, have Stiles cut off a Romulan's ear to Stuck In The Middle With You.

I don't think the film, if it goes ahead, will end up being a R. I think that's a ploy for QT to get creative freedom.

 

[Lysian]

As a child and a Star Trek fan, this news scares me more than the actual movie probably will! It's unessesary and not what Star Trek is about! Ive watched a few other R rating things and just covered my eyes but its annoying to see this happen to Star Trek! What's the point?

 

[Lord Garth]

^ By the time this comes out, it'll be 2020. You probably won't still be a child. Even if you are, I saw Terminator 2 when I was 12. Granted, I got into an argument with my mother and kept asking until she finally let me see it, but still... I came out of it fine.

 

[Malaika]

So I should regurgitate everything I said on the subject since 2009?

Everything? You are asked to make a simple, stupid, example of scenes to backup the assertions you have made about Uhura supposedly 'whining about her love life while on duty in ALL the movies', but you fail to do so because, perhaps, those scenes don't exist and you wrote yourself into a corner with your whole argument.

Why? You're spending a lot of time and effort typing at me, complaining about what my OPINIONS as though this is a court of law.

Sorry you felt victimized by someone replying to an argument you made in a fanboard and simply asking you to provide examples of scenes that explain your pov. That especially since you made claims passing them as facts.

Exactly. This is a message board. It has a search function. If you want to know what I said before, look it up. If you don't know how to use the search function, ask any moderator. I'm sure they can explain it to you. I see no reason to re-post everything again.

Who said I want to know what you have said before? You are doing the most with so little here.

Examples. Backup your opinion. You are failing to do that and making up excuses to derail the point.

I watched the third movie. I don't remember every last detail of it, and why should I?

Surely not every detail, but perhaps the scenes where Uhura is supposedly whining about her relationship - since that was your argument from the start.

It's called looking up someone's posting history and reading it, instead of expecting it to be handed to you time and again. I see you joined in 2012. If I wanted to know what you said back then, I'd look it up. I wouldn't demand you repeat it for me.

I have no idea where you got the impression I wanted to know what you said before and I'm now asking you to 'repeat it for me'? Are you into an alternate reality, or just deliberately playing oblivious no matter how embarrassing it gets?

I don't care if you think this trek is crap. The topic was: you made some assertions about a character being developed in a certain way. I ask you to make examples that prove what you are saying, and your response is like 'nooooo I caaaanttttt Just read my posts of 3 years to find the solution to the enigma'

So you're not tap dancing around an accusation of racism? That's what it looked like.

No. Just because Uhura is black, it doesn't mean everyone who hates her is a racist. IF They are, I wouldn't need to be the one saying it because that kind of thing tends to be obvious.

At the very least, my argument is that the way she's criticized in fandom reflects a well know problem in a lot of fandoms that have predominantly male characters. That issue is the sexist double standards and thus harping on women for stuff the guys get a pass for, or are praised for.

Of course, her being black might exacerbate it all the more to some people, and I'd lie if I said I never read fans making 'mysoginoiristic' arguments against her.
For a fandom that preaches about how progressive and inclusive trek is, there are a lot of problematic people in it. Including racists, as well as homophobes and sexist people. I'm not one to say 'they aren't real fans' when I read some things because I know better, and I know that some, many, like tos because, after all, it still was a by-product of the 60s and 'safe' even when progressive.

So you're accusing a female poster of being sexist regarding a female character?

Yes, I'm. Because of the arguments you are making, and the expressions you are using to describe Uhura and belittle her for having agency and voicing her feelings, just like the men do. That's internalized sexism, at best.

The fact you are a female poster doesn't mean you are more immune to sexism than male posters. This is a proved untrue idea. Just ask Zoe Saldana about some of the female producers she had worked with and the hostility she had faced.
Some of the most cringe worthy disgusting mysoginistic comments I read about women (see response to the latest scaldal in Hollywood) are made by women.
Even in the trek fandom, fangirls don't have that better a reputation than the fanboys, and they surely are responsible for some of the worst arguments being made against Uhura these years.
The slash fans (people who ship the male characters as a romantic pair and hate the woman for getting in the way) are for the most part women and hate her with a passion
and I don't even want to talk about some 'feminists' online who are everything but supporting women. It's depressing.

Ultimately I just don't buy her and Spock and worse don't see a lot of chemistry between Saldana and Quinto. Spock in ST09 is too much of a creepy asshole for me to believe she would be interested in him. So whatever justifications you make up don't really mean anything to me if the spark isn't there to make it compelling. That doesn't mean Uhura should just break out the old fan dance, but rather the writers should find something else that makes her stand out beyond her profession, or don't. I don't care as long as they make a movie that connects with me.

But your argument wasn't about you disliking it for these reasons.
You were trying to be all sjw and progressive about why you don't like it ('it's sexist, bad for Uhura and women etc etc'), and then when I debunked it to its core, you call it 'justifications' and change the point.

Is it so hard for some of you to, idk, simply say you don't like something? But nope, you gotta have to concern troll about the thing you dislike to give yourself a false sense of moral superiority for disliking it. In this case, by being a faux ally to 'women' or Uhura. You made it seems you dislike it for her own good, and that of all the poor women victim of these sexist writers who give them romances.

 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

It's gonna be different.

It's gonna be crazy.

I'm in.

Same here.

 

[Timewalker]

Who said I want to know what you have said before? You are doing the most with so little here.

Everything you are demanding of me is something I've posted before. Look it up. Or don't. At this point I really couldn't give a damn.

I have no idea where you got the impression I wanted to know what you said before and I'm now asking you to 'repeat it for me'? Are you into an alternate reality, or just deliberately playing oblivious no matter how embarrassing it gets?

Asked and answered. Repeatedly. I'm sorry you feel embarrassed. I certainly don't.

No. Just because Uhura is black, it doesn't mean everyone who hates her is a racist. IF They are, I wouldn't need to be the one saying it because that kind of thing tends to be obvious.

Well, at least you're not accusing me of being a racist. That's good.

At the very least, my argument is that the way she's criticized in fandom reflects a well know problem in a lot of fandoms that have predominantly male characters. That issue is the sexist double standards and thus harping on women for stuff the guys get a pass for, or are praised for.

Okay, McCoy was unprofessional in "Man Trap." He should have phasered "Nancy" immediately, instead of reacting sentimentally to someone he thought was his old girlfriend. Happy now?

I'm also not a fan of how McCoy's extremely short marriage to Natira played out. Back when this forum was vBulletin and we had personal photo albums, I had one with a bunch of Loltrek memes (captioned screenshots). The one of McCoy and Natira was labeled "Marriage of Convenience" since McCoy scampered back to the ship once he didn't need Natira anymore. So much for love.

Yes, I'm. Because of the arguments you are making, and the expressions you are using to describe Uhura and belittle her for having agency and voicing her feelings, just like the men do. That's internalized sexism, at best.

LOL. I'm not belittling her for having "agency." I'm belittling her for using it in an inappropriate and unprofessional way.

The fact you are a female poster doesn't mean you are more immune to sexism than male posters. This is a proved untrue idea. Just ask Zoe Saldana about some of the female producers she had worked with and the hostility she had faced.
Some of the most cringe worthy disgusting mysoginistic comments I read about women (see response to the latest scaldal in Hollywood) are made by women.

No, I don't have any reason to ask Zoe Saldana anything. Any harassment or abuse she may have suffered is unfortunate and I hope the perpetrator(s) receive due consequences. But that doesn't mean I have to like the characters she plays.

The slash fans (people who ship the male characters as a romantic pair and hate the woman for getting in the way) are for the most part women and hate her with a passion and I don't even want to talk about some 'feminists' online who are everything but supporting women. It's depressing.

You're mistaken if you think slashfic is only for male/male characters. There's a whole subgenre of fanfic with female/female characters. Of course you need more than one female character to pull that off, so it's not too surprising that you don't find a lot of it in TOS. There are certainly plenty of Janeway/Torres/Seven slashfics around (in whatever combination), and there's a cute story in which Seven and Samantha Wildman become a couple and eventually marry (yes, I know Samantha's already married; the story deals with that).

As for "feminists" who are anything but... we're in agreement there. However, supporting women doesn't mean supporting them no matter what. There have to be boundaries, or else they become a caricature.

 

[The Rock]

R-rated? The more I hear about this, the more I think QT is just the wrong director for Trek.

I'm by no means a prude but it just feels wrong to me for a Trek movie to be R-rated.