The Spore Drive Technology. What Do You Think About It?

[Rahul]

Let me put it this way: There would be no problem if they "just" used to get into a subspace realm for fast travel. Those are theoretically unlikely, but not impossible, and we have plenty of them seen in Star Trek. The problem is, was, and for DIS always has been -the mushroom network-. The way they portray it, it's one entire, giant funghi spannung our whole galaxy. That is simply impossible. Even in the world of Star Trek.

Oh, the fluid realm of Specie 8472: That was an entirely different universe. Like the mirror universe, or the Kelvin-universe. Those are okay and spawn from Hawkins (now withdrawn) postulation of alternate realities. But the funghi isn't an alternate reality: It's in the subspace of our one. It is simply impossible to have such a large scale organism spanning our galaxy. Both physically (were would it's energy come from? How the fuck did it ever evolve?), as well as logcially (so, Tardigrades can travel on it. An ability they must have learned in billions of years of evolution - And NONE ever came to Earth? what?), as well as canon (so, like, there has been an exchange of biological organisms for the entirety of human existence with aliens, and that was never mentioned?).

Again: This thing theoretically could work, in it's own fictional universe. Much like the Flash Gordon universe, where there is breathable air between planets, or the Star Wars universe which has the Force in it, or the Lord of the Rings universe, were magic exists, or the JJ Abrams universe, were star systems are so close you can see planets from the surface of different planets orbiting a different sun (Force Awakens, destruction of Vulcan). But this is not the universe Star Trek had created, in the Star Trek universe the year 2017 looks like OUR universe in 2017, NOT a magical realm with Orcs, Demons and space shrooms in it, and as such it sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

[Ithekro]

Maybe they did at some point, but we somehow managed to kill our planet's link to the network, or there are safety systems in place by the Preservers to keep things out of some systems they were interested in.

I mean we have tardigards all over the planet now. they are just microscopic. The family this fungus is from is now extinct on Earth.

 

[fireproof78]

Let me put it this way: There would be no problem if they "just" used to get into a subspace realm for fast travel. Those are theoretically unlikely, but not impossible, and we have plenty of them seen in Star Trek. The problem is, was, and for DIS always has been -the mushroom network-. The way they portray it, it's one entire, giant funghi spannung our whole galaxy. That is simply impossible. Even in the world of Star Trek.

Oh, the fluid realm of Specie 8472: That was an entirely different universe. Like the mirror universe, or the Kelvin-universe. Those are okay and spawn from Hawkins (now withdrawn) postulation of alternate realities. But the funghi isn't an alternate reality: It's in the subspace of our one. It is simply impossible to have such a large scale organism spanning our galaxy. Both physically (were would it's energy come from? How the fuck did it ever evolve?), as well as logcially (so, Tardigrades can travel on it. An ability they must have learned in billions of years of evolution - And NONE ever came to Earth? what?), as well as canon (so, like, there has been an exchange of biological organisms for the entirety of human existence with aliens, and that was never mentioned?).

Again: This thing theoretically could work, in it's own fictional universe. Much like the Flash Gordon universe, where there is breathable air between planets, or the Star Wars universe which has the Force in it, or the Lord of the Rings universe, were magic exists, or the JJ Abrams universe, were star systems are so close you can see planets from the surface of different planets orbiting a different sun (Force Awakens, destruction of Vulcan). But this is not the universe Star Trek had created, in the Star Trek universe the year 2017 looks like OUR universe in 2017, NOT a magical realm with Orcs, Demons and space shrooms in it, and as such it sticks out like a sore thumb.

It works fine, because it is another dimension. There are other things in Star Trek that have operated within the dimensional rule of the same space, or being hidden from the point of view of the characters.

As for energy, I would theorized that if it exists in another dimension (or possibly spanning the multi-verse) then it could draw energy from subspace or another dimension.

As for evolution-um, how do half of the aliens in Star Trek evolve? If evolution is a sudden consideration for plausibility, then there are a lot of aliens that need to be discarded, from the Ocampans, to the Tak-Tak, the neural parasites, and on and on.

I'm sorry to keep going on, but this line feels really weird to be drawn at.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I have zero problem if Star Trek's universe has a magical superhighway of extradimensional living fungi.

It's not real life. It's not trying to be.

 

[Rahul]

Again: YMMV. Suspension of disbelief varies from person to person. Mine's okay with jumping through subspace. But the space-mushroom network is a stoner-fantasy. I can totally understand other people being okay with it. But for me personally, it feels like a "Spock's brain"-eight parter, or a "Warp-10-Salamander-sex" season long arc. Just...ugh.

 

[jaime]

Again: YMMV. Suspension of disbelief varies from person to person. Mine's okay with jumping through subspace. But the space-mushroom network is a stoner-fantasy. I can totally understand other people being okay with it. But for me personally, it feels like a "Spock's brain"-eight parter, or a "Warp-10-Salamander-sex" season long arc. Just...ugh.

It’s the mental clip necessary to have an apparently naturally occurring thing that exists in one universe, one that grows on other things usually, literally having roots that punch through dimensional boundaries. It’s a bit...out there, even by Trek standards. Like all these spores are not only connected to the thing still, but you can move along it...it really is Sixties Counterculture, Gaia Fantasy, Midichlorian level stuff. In some trippy New Wave book it would be all kinds of awesome maybe, and maybe interesting. But not sure it’s Trek.

Now...they have the Caretaker there as past evidence for it (from an audience perspective) but he was Big last time we had a Sixties counterculture resurgence. I await the DSC magic eye posters with...bemused interest.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Again: YMMV. Suspension of disbelief varies from person to person. Mine's okay with jumping through subspace. But the space-mushroom network is a stoner-fantasy. I can totally understand other people being okay with it. But for me personally, it feels like a "Spock's brain"-eight parter, or a "Warp-10-Salamander-sex" season long arc. Just...ugh.

But they just don't "jump through subspace".

TNG, DS9, and VOY have told me there are whole invisible realms of alien universes right under our noses all around our dimension of space, filled with alien species, universes coexisting in the same place as our universe; universes that they cannot see because the universe is in a different dimension, or different phase, or in subspace.

So how's the idea of an extradimensional filaments stretching invisibly through the universe any different? You're OK with entire universes filled with aliens all around us that we cannot see because they live in subspace or a different dimension, but aren't OK with a filament network that pervades space in a different dimension?

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Star Trek is built on implausibility. Why is one more implausible aspect a problem?

 

[Ronald Held]

One of the initial tenants of Trek is believability extension of current science that is possible. Warp 10 travel makes no sensetoho anywhere with no time delay. Traveling through higher dimensions to get to anywhere in the Prime universe is plausible but not the way itv is done in DSC.

 

[Mechanoid1]

Star Trek is built on implausibility. Why is one more implausible aspect a problem?

Star Trek has been built by many people over the years. Some better than others.

 

[fireproof78]

But not sure it’s Trek.

Now...they have the Caretaker there as past evidence for it (from an audience perspective) but he was Big last time we had a Sixties counterculture resurgence. I await the DSC magic eye posters with...bemused interest.

It is Star Trek-pure and simple. Q and the other omnipotent beings are the "gods" of this universe and there have been other types of technology that strain credulity well past the breaking point.

This feels far more like DISCO is doing it and therefore it is wrong...

Star Trek is built on implausibility. Why is one more implausible aspect a problem?

Exactly.

One of the initial tenants of Trek is believability extension of current science that is possible. Warp 10 travel makes no sensetoho anywhere with no time delay. Traveling through higher dimensions to get to anywhere in the Prime universe is plausible but not the way itv is done in DSC.

But interdimensional aliens, evolving higher beings, "reality as the basis of thought" aliens are all perfectly plausible?

 

[Agony_Boothb]

One of the initial tenants of Trek is believability extension of current science that is possible. Warp 10 travel makes no sensetoho anywhere with no time delay. Traveling through higher dimensions to get to anywhere in the Prime universe is plausible but not the way itv is done in DSC.

Yeah, no it wasn't. Star Trek is and always have been built on fantasy. It's full of energy beings, space monsters, genetic supermen, and ridiculous technologies like transporters, universal translators and warp drives that break the lightspeed barrier. Travelling to other dimensions is theoretical but isn't really plausible at all, yet Star trek depicts it frequently. How is the spore drive and mycelial network any more crazy than transwarp drives, god-like beings or ships making noises in space?

 

[ralfy]

I have zero problem if Star Trek's universe has a magical superhighway of extradimensional living fungi.

It's not real life. It's not trying to be.

That's obvious, but warp tech, replicators, etc. are also not part of real life. In which case, anything is possible for the franchise. The catch is that fictional storytelling is always driven by internal logic. In this case, since warp tech, replicators, etc., appear readily in various shows, then such groundbreaking tech used to thwart the Klingons should have appeared as well. That's why one thread speculates on how writers will resolve what happened in STD with the rest of the franchise.

 

[jaime]

It is Star Trek-pure and simple. Q and the other omnipotent beings are the "gods" of this universe and there have been other types of technology that strain credulity well past the breaking point.

This feels far more like DISCO is doing it and therefore it is wrong...

Exactly.

But interdimensional aliens, evolving higher beings, "reality as the basis of thought" aliens are all perfectly plausible?

There is more to heaven and earth Horatio.

Which can stretch to Q, in context, but space mushrooms fall but under the heading of silly, silly being dressed up as serious over god knows how many episodes. It feels silly.

I just rewatched the first half of a series, and it just does. That’s not ‘I hate discovery so nya’ that it feeling silly. Voyager people have Salamanders, Ds9 people have move along Home, ENT has...something I am sure. TNG people may cringe at The Higher.....The Fewer! Or Genesis or something, TOS has Kohms and Yangs and what is Brain, but DSC people get a central conceit.
I guess this is how edgy modern TV works now?

 

[fireproof78]

I guess this is how edgy modern TV works now?

Not sure what makes this "edgy" but ok.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

There is more to heaven and earth Horatio.

Which can stretch to Q, in context, but space mushrooms fall but under the heading of silly, silly being dressed up as serious over god knows how many episodes. It feels silly.

So other Star Trek series offer up entire species living in other "adjacent to us, but invisible to us" universes, but you don't think there could be fungi in any of those adjacent universes?

We get two-dimensional sentient beings in TNG who can somehow exist in our universe, and that's OK; or TNG gives us aliens that can't be seen even when they are standing next to us because their universe is out of phase with us, and that's OK....So then why is it not OK for there to be a dimension of space that is interconnected by tendril-like filaments?

 

[jaime]

So other Star Trek series offer up entire species living in other "adjacent to us, but invisible to us" universes, but you don't think there could be fungi in any of those adjacent universes?

We get two-dimensional sentient beings in TNG who can somehow exist in our universe, and that's OK; or TNG gives us aliens that can't be seen even when they are standing next to us because their universe is out of phase with us, and that's OK....So then why is it not OK for there to be a dimension of space that is interconnected by tendril-like filaments?

Because those tendril like filaments are referred to as a food group. Like I said. It feels silly. Remember the cheese taking out the bioneural gel packs on Voyager? That made sense, but felt silly. This fills silly. It’s like...a Bistromathics drive.

 

[Succubint]

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141114-the-biggest-organism-in-the-world

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141111-plants-have-a-hidden-internet

Personally, I think the concept of an interstellar or intergalactic mycelial network living in a different dimension to ours is pretty cool.

 

[jaime]

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141114-the-biggest-organism-in-the-world

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141111-plants-have-a-hidden-internet

Personally, I think the concept of an interstellar or intergalactic mycelial network living in a different dimension to ours is pretty cool.

It is cool. And in a fiction with bioships it would feel in place. Across a whole planet, it would feel in place, maybe a solar system with solar activity for an episode or two in something like Trek, or Trek itself...but as a universe wide organism, Trunk lime to travel, in Trek, it feels...silly. Not helped by them outright calling it a mushroom network. Especially as they now seem relate Sto the funky things that tried to eat Burnhams shuttle way back when.
Cool...yes...Wayfarer Rayban Mirrorshades are De Facto cool as fuck, but...would I want a Starfleet Officer to wear them for a series?
Not even if it was rapping Jake Sisko or The Emissary. It would feel silly.

 

[Rahul]

It’s a bit...out there, even by Trek standards. Like all these spores are not only connected to the thing still, but you can move along it...it really is Sixties Counterculture, Gaia Fantasy, Midichlorian level stuff. In some trippy New Wave book it would be all kinds of awesome maybe, and maybe interesting. But not sure it’s Trek.

That's... pretty much the problem I had. Yeah. Well articulated.
Like, if they told a one-off episode involving such a (smaller scale) subspace-funghi-FTL-network, I'd probably roll my eyes, hard, and then put it into the other "ridiculous"-pile of Trek stories, together with the Warp 10-salamanders, and move on.

I think the fact that the jump drive, the sole concept that makes Discovery unique in the world of Star Trek, depends upon such a hippy-trippy-stoner fantasy is the thing that irritates me the most. Like, I wouldn't even mind it if they needed someone to take space shrooms to "widen his mind" enough to be able to navigate the subspace. My biggest problem really is this giant fucking galaxy-spanning space shroom organism itself.

It is Star Trek-pure and simple. Q and the other omnipotent beings are the "gods" of this universe and there have been other types of technology that strain credulity well past the breaking point.

This feels far more like DISCO is doing it and therefore it is wrong...

Well, Star Trek always operated under the principle of "your magic is our science". For us, beaming and warp drive looks like ungodly magic. But for the humans in Star Trek, it's a prefectly, reasonable functioning technology, working under it's own rules and conditions. Like a plane or a smartphone would look like magic for someone from the middle ages.

So it makes a lot of sense that, if they reach aliens even more advanced, that their type of manipulating reality would look even more like pure fucking magic to us. Even for these future humans. But nevertheless, it's always clear that it is science, not magic. Even if we don't understand how it works. There is never really any doubt that what the Q do is also only manipulation of time and space, only in a way and at a scale we can't comprehend. Not even Picard believes for a sole second Q is actually a real "god".

That being said: You're right in one way: Discovery IS Star Trek. It has a lot of problems (like many other first seasons of Trek had before), but from start to finish, it feels a whole lot like Star Trek. I find the whole concept of the mycellium network stupid beyond belief. But that's mainly the concept of it itself. The way they are handling and portraying it is very good. It's ridiculous, but they very well pretend that it's regular science. It's only if you take a step back, and think about the larger implications of it, that the pieces are starting to fall apart. And even then, I may complain about it, but it doesn't "ruin" DIS or anything.