Sexual Harassment and Objectification in Star Trek

[Forbin]

Meaning Spock would have done the same to a male character because it was not a sexual attack, nor a dominance attack - it was a vital need to extract information immediately, by any means possible. One can argue that it was torture or "enhanced interrogation", one can argue it was assault, but (IMHO), I didn't see it as "mind-rape" or any kind of rape.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Meaning Spock would have done the same to a male character because it was not a sexual attack, nor a dominance attack - it was a vital need to extract information immediately, by any means possible. One can argue that it was torture or "enhanced interrogation", one can argue it was assault, but (IMHO), I didn't see it as "mind-rape" or any kind of rape.

Same here.

 

[Flork]

Or that women are so commonly sexualized in popular entertainment, including with any form of rape, that it doesn't register as readily if it happens to a man.

 

[Flork]

The issue isn't simply the invasion of someone's mind, however, but how that invasion may also be further sexualized. With T'Pol and Deanna, there are clear sexual references. In what situation was the mind rape of a man clearly connected to him being a sexualized object?

Also, are we making a distinction between mind control and mind rape, or is any situation where someone is influenced by someone else's psychic ability considered a "rape"?

 

[Prax]

Were there sexual components to such, though? T'Pol, for instance, ends up in bed with the man responsible. If memory serves, so does Deanna in her episode. Both turn out to be in their mind, of course, but the point is that the events are sexualized.

Are you referring to TNG's "Violations," and Enterprise's "Fusion"?

In Fusion, T'Pol is violated, and the episode is making a clear analogy to rape, but they are desexualizing it, into a sci fi format, and T'Pol doesn't end up in bed with the guy, she kicks him out, he says something to make her feel ashamed, then leaves. T'Pol ends up in sickbay from the mind meld. Archer confronts him later, and kicks him off the ship.

And in Violations, The Ulian creep violates a number of people, including Deanna, leaving them all in a coma. He invades Troi's mind, then Riker's who was investigating how Troi ended up in a coma, then Dr. Crusher's, who is also investigating.

Troi doesn't end up in bed with him either, and we find out at the end, that he set up the whole thing to frame his overbearing father, so his father could go to prison and no longer be in his way.

 

[Tenacity]

There has already been a comment here about how no male characters have been mentally raped in the franchise, even though that is not true.

McCoy, Sulu, and others in The Final Frontier.

 

[Forbin]

Also, are we making a distinction between mind control and mind rape, or is any situation where someone is influenced by someone else's psychic ability considered a "rape"?

Ah - maybe mind control is a better phrase for what Spock did to Valeris. Maybe even just mind-reading, but since she tried to block him, it became forced mind-reading.

A violation under normal circumstances, but he had a war to prevent.

 

[velour]

Meaning that male rape is often overlooked compared to female rape (despite both being horrific and traumatic events for the victims). There has already been a comment here about how no male characters have been mentally raped in the franchise, even though that is not true.

At the end of "Requiem for Methuselah", Kirk was overcome by heartbreak over losing Rayna. In the last scene of the episode, while Kirk was asleep at his desk, Spock did a mind meld on Kirk. "Forget", he said.

Spock had good intentions nevertheless what he did to Kirk, without Kirk's consent or knowledge, would that be considered mind rape or mind control? Was that even ethical?

Btw, I had no idea what Methuselah meant. I had to look it up.

 

[Prax]

Ever heard of the Methuselah tree? It's the oldest living tree in the world. Not sure if it still holds the record, but it's about 4,000 years old!

 

[Flork]

Are you referring to TNG's "Violations," and Enterprise's "Fusion"?

In Fusion, T'Pol is violated, and the episode is making a clear analogy to rape, but they are desexualizing it, into a sci fi format, and T'Pol doesn't end up in bed with the guy, she kicks him out, he says something to make her feel ashamed, then leaves. T'Pol ends up in sickbay from the mind meld. Archer confronts him later, and kicks him off the ship.

And in Violations, The Ulian creep violates a number of people, including Deanna, leaving them all in a coma. He invades Troi's mind, then Riker's who was investigating how Troi ended up in a coma, then Dr. Crusher's, who is also investigating.

Troi doesn't end up in bed with him either, and we find out at the end, that he set up the whole thing to frame his overbearing father, so his father could go to prison and no longer be in his way.

In Fusion, Violations, and even Nemesis, the mind rapes are clearly sexualized. Scenes show the intruder playing out sexual rape with the characters, as the following screencaps show:

http://www.firsttvdrama.com/enterprise/images/tpolbed.jpg
http://www.bucketbros.com/text/bad-movie-reboot-star-trek-nemesis-mind-rape-large.jpg
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...dth-down/475?cb=20140726133530&path-prefix=en

 

[Shawnster]

I

 

[Shawnster]

In Fusion, Violations, and even Nemesis, the mind rapes are clearly sexualized. Scenes show the intruder playing out sexual rape with the characters,n

I can understand using rape in the above context. There was no sexual component in Valeris case. That was like forcibly removing an organ or limb from someone.

 

[Jayson1]

TNG gets a little unfairly knocked in one regard in that we never got tosee a strong female character like Yar over 7 years. PLus Troi and Crusher were imporved once Jeri Taylor came along presenting a woman voice in the writing room and was basically in charge of show starting in season 6 I believe. You also had Ro and would have had even more Ro i suspect if the actress didn't go off to do movies. You also got to consider one angle and that isn't it a flaw that we see cargiving roles as doctor and thearpist as "weak?" Why is strength only with people who can kick ass in action scenes?

The worst things though is the catsuits because that is over the top sex appeal. With that said I don't mind if shows present characters in sexy manners just as long as it's equal in how they do it to both males and females and they understand the concept of realistic sexy instead of cartoon sexy though I guess you still have certain shows were it's okay to be a little over the top. Superman and THOR are always going to be muscled rippling six-pack carrying sexy men and Black WIdow is always going to wear the black catsuit and Wonder Woman will always wear skimpy clothing. The type of show your trying to do does influence what you present. A catsuit wearing female lawyer on "Better things" would look absurd but do it on a show aimed at horny young people and then it feels different because you going for a different audience. This is one of the reasons why unrealistic number of sexy people on a CW show is seen as normal but nobody would buy it if it's on a show for older adults.

Jason

 

[Griffeytrek]

The fact that Star Trek was a Casting Couch Production ruled over by a man with Weinstein’esque tendencies has been one of those open secrets for decades. For all of his talk of empowering women Roddenberry was a typical high level Hollywood abuser. Not just in the stuff that he himself did back in the early days, but in what he allowed on his shows and sets in the latter. Everyone mentions Grace Lee Whitney’s Rape Story (which seems completely credible these days.) BUt I haven’t seen anyone mention why Gate McFadden left TNG for awhile. She was sexually hareased, stalked and terrorized by one of the seniormost writers. She left because Roddenberry wouldn’t do anything about it. She returned after the Writer was finally gone for some other transgression. And yeah even post Roddenberry some attitudes remained. Bergman and Braga’s tastes and views clearly reflected their tastes and attitudes towards women. DS9, as the show largely ignored by B&B seemingly has the fewest such tales and clear insertions on screen. (Heck DS9’s showrunner and fashion designer went too far the other way. The fashion guy missed his true calling doing appolstery)

 

[Jayson1]

The fact that Star Trek was a Casting Couch Production ruled over by a man with Weinstein’esque tendencies has been one of those open secrets for decades. For all of his talk of empowering women Roddenberry was a typical high level Hollywood abuser. Not just in the stuff that he himself did back in the early days, but in what he allowed on his shows and sets in the latter. Everyone mentions Grace Lee Whitney’s Rape Story (which seems completely credible these days.) BUt I haven’t seen anyone mention why Gate McFadden left TNG for awhile. She was sexually hareased, stalked and terrorized by one of the seniormost writers. She left because Roddenberry wouldn’t do anything about it. She returned after the Writer was finally gone for some other transgression. And yeah even post Roddenberry some attitudes remained. Bergman and Braga’s tastes and views clearly reflected their tastes and attitudes towards women. DS9, as the show largely ignored by B&B seemingly has the fewest such tales and clear insertions on screen. (Heck DS9’s showrunner and fashion designer went too far the other way. The fashion guy missed his true calling doing appolstery)

I do think in regards to "Voyager" you did see more explotation once Jeri Taylor and Pillar left. At the same time I am not willing to let Jeri Ryan off the hook either because the entire romance between Jeri Ryan and Braga felt iffy. Of course I wonder if Roddenberry's values also reflect on how we see Majel Barrett Roddenberry. What do you do when you have woman who actually go along and cover for the male abuser?

One thing I will say about Braga and Ryan, unlike Roddenberry we don't know if any abuse happened because nobody has come forward on that angle and it might have been someone just trying to use sex to get people to watch.

Also a little off topic with Berman is that I don't know what is stance was on anything sex related but I still recall years ago here on the TREKBBS you had a poster who apparently had inside info on the show and the movie "Nemissis" which was being made and he stated that one of the reasons why Sisko was forced to have hair in the first couple of seasons was because he didn't want him to to look "To Black." Ever since then I have always been very suspect about the guy and his values though nothing has come forward to actually prove he is a bad person but if I recall correctly that poster did have some credible stuff that was proven correct though I think he was off on the Admiral being played by Arnold Swartennegger.

Jason

 

[Prax]

Or they didn't want two bald captains in a row. That's the reason I've always heard.

The ethical thing to do is always give someone the benefit of the doubt unless there are solid reasons not to.

 

[fireproof78]

Or they didn't want two bald captains in a row. That's the reason I've always heard.

The ethical thing to do is always give someone the benefit of the doubt unless there are solid reasons not to.

They're from Hollywood. That's reason enough nowadays.

 

[suarezguy]

I haven’t seen anyone mention why Gate McFadden left TNG for awhile. She was sexually hareased, stalked and terrorized by one of the seniormost writers. She left because Roddenberry wouldn’t do anything about it. She returned after the Writer was finally gone for some other transgression.

There have been those rumors but her open explanation seems at least as plausible, that she was let go because the producers weren't too happy with her chemistry with the other characters or with that she, from a theater background, gave what they felt was too many suggestions about how to improve her character and was otherwise critical of the scripts.
If it did happen I sure hope the writer wasn't Hurley, who many fans assume it was, since he was later brought back to write a few episodes and was offered the chance to write the first film.

I do think in regards to "Voyager" you did see more explotation once Jeri Taylor and Pillar left. At the same time I am not willing to let Jeri Ryan off the hook either because the entire romance between Jeri Ryan and Braga felt iffy. Of course I wonder if Roddenberry's values also reflect on how we see Majel Barrett Roddenberry. What do you do when you have woman who actually go along and cover for the male abuser?

One thing I will say about Braga and Ryan, unlike Roddenberry we don't know if any abuse happened because nobody has come forward on that angle and it might have been someone just trying to use sex to get people to watch.

Whitney did make the accusation against an executive (and maybe suggested that Roddenberry was aware) but I don't think Nichols or Barrett accused Roddenberry of abuse unless you think any sexual relationship with the producer followed by getting a role is abusive.

 

[Jayson1]

There have been those rumors but her open explanation seems at least as plausible, that she was let go because the producers weren't too happy with her chemistry with the other characters or with that she, from a theater background, gave what they felt was too many suggestions about how to improve her character and was otherwise critical of the scripts.
If it did happen I sure hope the writer wasn't Hurley, who many fans assume it was, since he was later brought back to write a few episodes and was offered the chance to write the first film.



Whitney did make the accusation against an executive (and maybe suggested that Roddenberry was aware) but I don't think Nichols or Barrett accused Roddenberry of abuse unless you think any sexual relationship with the producer followed by getting a role is abusive.

I'm not sure of what to think of Roddenberry. I do think he used the casting couch and no doubt cheated on his wives,his first one we know for fact and I am sure he did bad things like touching people without their consent but the Whitney thing is actual kind of new to me because until recently I hadn't even know she had claimed to have been sexually assaulted. I believe it because of the era and how she was fired plus the drug problems but it wasn't until I think a couple of days ago someone mentioned Roddenberry as the possible abuser. Not sure if now if that was theory or what made that person think he might have did it other than if he did do I don't think it would be a shock.

As for Barrett I have always wondered what to think in that if he is cheating on her and maybe doing worst and she doesn't come forward that almost feels as bad, yet at the same time it was a different time so you got to judge her on that level as well. Also the impression i get is that the set must have been like some wild swingers party where lots of people are sleeping around with each other and doing drugs. I mean it was the 60's so that makes sense I guess.

Jason

 

[Qonundrum]

Star Trek creators were/are not immune from the sexist and racist culture they were born and bred in. No its not a sacred cow above reproach, no human institution can ever make that claim.
As society changes, hopefully for the better then we should expect these institutions to also change.

Possibly. Keep in mind Roddenberry spoke of treating women (and men) as (sex objects), much to the jubilant applause of the audience where his presentation was being recorded (from "Star Trek: The Motion Picture 20th Anniversary" album having an excerpt from "Inside Star Trek"). I suppose that explains the rampant rise in STDs over the decades, so institutions have changed... though it also explains a lot of Roddenberry's cheating. I hope he didn't spread anything to anyone... or, if nothing else, be glad it was spread back then when cures actually worked without issue, something that's going to be increasingly a problem...

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

(they get to the good stuff right at the start of the track, or skip to ~0 minutes and 30 seconds in. Yay, everyone is nothing more than an object! *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* - though that is not a deliberate pun regarding "the clap", for which antibiotic-resistant strains will be hitting the sexual marketplace eventually and gonorrhea can do some quite not-so-lovely things... by 48 seconds in he gleefully states how he liked being an object and how it's fun. Bet the clap isn't fun... unless he was "in the zone" and telling a big story for the audience to hoot and holler over...)

Bonus, the whole thing is worth the listen:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

(amazing, how much of Questor is Cmdr Data... )

Roddenberry was a better salesman than most. Making a living going to college campuses in the 70's to sell Star Trek's future.

Not bad for a guy to be claimed to have "Asperger's Syndrome", since many aspies lack the nuances needed to be successful salesmen... But anything is technically possible, I don't discount the notion.