Spoilers marsh8472's Consolidated Continuity Thread

The Phasers in ST: D are more akin to the TOS Remastered 'Burst Phasers' they had in "Errand of Mercy" and "Balance of Terror":
"Errand of Mercy" Original/Remastered comparison:


"Balance of Terror" Remastered effects clips:

 

ok I did a frame by frame count of the phasers from Star Trek 2 and Discovery. The rate of fire between them is pretty close. Though I can tell the beams travel at a faster speed in Discovery compared to those of Star Trek 2.

USS Reliant
4 shots / 1.2 seconds = 3.3 shots per second
4 shots / 1.1 seconds = 3.6 shots per second

USS Enterprise
5 shots / 0.7 seconds = 7.1 shots per second
12 shots in 1.66 seconds = 7.2 shots per second
5 shots / 0.7 seconds = 7.1 shots per second
(from 2 phaser banks)

Battle of the Binary Stars Ships from Star Trek Discovery
7 shots in 0.866 seconds = 8.08 shots per second
9 shots in 1.666 seconds = 5.4 shots per second
11 shots in 1.63 seconds = 6.7 shots per second
7 shots in 1.13 seconds = 6.19 shots per second
6 shots in 0.7 seconds = 8.6 shots per second

The rate varies

 

Wrong. They've been used before.

 

You know, the DSC ship that flies by is clearly firing from multiple phaser banks, but you're counting every shot. In at least one frame it fires two simultaneously, so based on that frame and your algorithm, the rate of fire is infinite.

 

Enterprise was firing from 2 phaser banks. The ship I was looking at in Discovery was firing from 2 also. I was going back and forth about whether to count the phaser banks individually or not. Either way they're about the same. It also depends on what time interval I measure that determines the rate of fire. At points the ship would stop firing for most of a second, if I included the idle time then the rate of fire is lower. Or if you include the simultaneous shots and use a single frame for the interval then it's infinite. The difference in firing rate too insignificant in this case to make a big deal about that.

 

I could post the data at what frames each shot was fired and people could try to interpret the firing rates themselves. I found the ships in Discovery to fire at a more erratic making the rates harder to figure out. Enterprise was firing at a more constant speed so it's easier to figure out the rate of fire for them.

 

And yet here we are.

 

yup yup Enterprise fired faster than I was expecting in that scene I'll give it that. I found a workaround though

Since I was technically referring to the shows and not the movies in the original post, problem solved. The speed of the phasers is still faster too.

 

One would think, but with directed energy weapons, pulsed lasers actually have an advantage over a continuous beam.This is the reason most industrial cutting lasers actually ARE pulsed lasers and do not use continuous beams. Not that you can really tell the difference, because the pulses are nanoseconds long and the lens is only a few millimeters from the cutting surface. With continuous beams, you also have the problem of "jitter" with the beam doing maximum damage only if it dwells on a specific target point for a long period of time. Pulses don't have this problem; if you put 50MJ into a single pulse, all of that energy is delivered to the target point instantly, compared to 50MJ spread out over a messy zigzag line 20 meters long.

Also, as at least 50 people have pointed out, phasers in the TMP era always fired in pulses/bolts.

Also, as at least 500 people have pointed out, pulse phasers are cooler.

 

It would be AWESOME if we saw phasers being used this way more, since it would finally give some justification for starships having both torpedoes AND phasers instead of just arming their ships with a shit ton of torpedo launchers.

Also, it was pointed out to me a few years ago by a navy veteran that CQB between naval vessels -- which is a lot more likely than you would think -- would almost certainly involve one or both vessels spraying each other with gunfire from CIWS. The Navy was actually kind of terrified and/or embarrassed at their inability to do this if they needed to, which is why the Phalanx system was eventually retrofitted with manual targeting optics to make this possible. It's also one of the things modern Naval officers like about the Sea-RAM system; Apparently you can program them to hit a specific point on the enemy's ship (phaser lock, anyone?) which is really useful if you're trying to blow up the other guy's CIWS. And before you ask: the main things people are worried about shooting at or being shot at by? Pirates, hijackers, terrorists in small boats, and privateers using small second-hand warships flying fake flags to try and get the drop on their enemies at close range. In other words, the same kind of silly shit navies were doing to each other right after Queen Anne's War in the age of sail.

Everything old is new again...

 

See, this dpeends on which side of the equation you're looking at. If you're talking strictly in universe stuff, sure, but in terms of straight up visuals and what the intent is? The pulse phasers have always been more about the action-pace. Defiant was given pulse phasers for that very reason, to make her look more beefy and kick ass when she swooped in and blew the Hell out of the bad guys. Compare the Defiant blasting Jem'hadar in The Die is Cast vs The Future D firing it's phaser lance in All Good Things, and the Defiant's visuals are much more hard hitting.

The Kelvin did intercept and destroy several of the Narada's torpedos as they were coming in. They fragmented and still did damage, but that's against a vastly superior ship. Against ships of the day, the Kelvin very likely could have used her point defense system to take out Klingon torpedos.

Because as we have seen on many occassions, shields are not 100% certain to protect you against damage. In fact, they won't stop all damage.

 

That's because it's the ICONIC ambush scene from "Wrath of Khan" that set the gold standard for Star Trek action sequences for, like, 20 years afterwards. It's not that it "looks cooler" it's that it's an incredibly epic well executed piece of cinema.

 

"Looks cooler" could be a shorthand for what you just described.

Also, it's irrational, but I really want TWOK to be unseated as the gold standard. It's fatiguing and tiring because Star Trek feels like it can't move forward at all because it hit its peak with TWOK and the rest is just substandard.

 

I like how they handle photon-torpedoes in STO: use when the target's shields are down, only.
That would also explain the need to have phasers and torpedos. Pound the hostile's shields down to open gaps in shield coverage then send in the torpedos to destroy.

 

it looks cooler because its much better paced. its hard to unseat it because the special effects themselves arent the reason. they simply took the space battle with a much better sense of drama and cinema.

::edit::

i happen to like the scenes in Undiscovered Country better though.

 

I HATE how they handle torpedoes in STO. You have an unlimited supply of them, but you can only ever fire them one at a time. Ideally, you should be able to spam torpedoes five or six at a time; if torpedoes aren't useful as a weapon, it should be because shields are completely immune to them, not because they fire so slowly.

Star Trek has never been clear on the actual utility of torpedoes vs phasers, and STO muddies the waters even more with this balancing crap that makes torpedoes less useful as a weapon JUST so energy weapons make sense to be in the game at all. Because as a practical matter, they shouldn't; if I could spam torpedoes with a firing rate close to what we see on screen, I'd never NEED phaser banks in STO.

 

thatd be kinda boring. i mean sto is already kinda boring. im not even sure why i play it but i just cant stop.

 

What I mean is, it's sort of like how the "Ezekiel 25:17" scene in "Pulp Fiction" is an excellent scene even though it's not quite as cool or as flashy as, say, the ending gunbattle of Django Unchained. They're going for a different effect because it's a different kind of scene in a different kind of movie.

The battle of the binary stars was fucking cool, but it wasn't a high-drama moment played for subtlety. Strictly speaking, neither was the Battle over Khitomer or the Battle against the Borg, which is why those scenes are remembered more for their coolness than their raw emotion.

My favorite of all time remains the "closing on impulse power" scene from Search for Spock

 

I enjoy Sulu and Chekov's maneuvers in ST 09 and sneaking up on the Narada.