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Silver Nemesis extended cut on DVD in germany

Takeru

Space Police
Commodore
So it looks like the enxtended cut of Silver Nemesis, previously only abailable on VHS in the UK will get a DVD release in germany as part of a complete seventh doctor set, the set also includes a new 80 minute interview with Andrew Cartmel, 52 pages of production notes written by him (in coffee table book format like the entire set), the Doctor who revisited special for seven and what seems to be all bonus material from the previois individual releases.

http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2017/11/germany-silver-nemesis-extended-german.html
 
Well fingers crossed this will lead to a Special Edition release as they've done for a couple of other stories like Remembrance Of The Daleks.
 
Well fingers crossed this will lead to a Special Edition release as they've done for a couple of other stories like Remembrance Of The Daleks.

Apart from regrading like they did with Fenric, there’s not much to fix in Nemesis. Maybe some cgi on the ship, but it’s actually pretty tight effects wise...the Nemesis glow is a nicely done practical effect.
 
Who'd want more Silver Nemesis!

It’s only real flaws are that it was touted as an anniversary story and it isn’t, and that it came in the same season as remembrance. It’s a fine story, decent guests, decent performances for the most part, and pretty good if not great effects for the time. The new cyber costumes looked awesome in the day.
 
well other than using cricket gloves as part of the costume.

Most of us kids didn’t notice at the time. And ultimately...finger padding and reinforcement is the job of both cricket gloves and cybernetic enhancement no? :)
 
Its one of the better 7th Doctor stories. I'd take it over more Ghost Light or *shudder* Curse of Fenric any day.

Man....those are...
But...
You know there essays out there that will explain why those two in particular are so awesome.
There hasn’t been a thing in Who that works as well and as effectively as Aces ‘white kids firebombed it’ flashback, or her whole lineage in Fenric. Not a thing.
 
God forbid someone not like stories you do :rolleyes:. I hate a good portion of the 7th Doctor's era, and only really liked him when he was a nice guy who played with spoons and not the sociopathiv monster Cartmel turned him into by the end. This is not new information.
 
God forbid someone not like stories you do :rolleyes:. I hate a good portion of the 7th Doctor's era, and only really liked him when he was a nice guy who played with spoons and not the sociopathiv monster Cartmel turned him into by the end. This is not new information.

Of course.

On the other hand, as a piece of art, objectively, Ghost Light and Fenric both have more going on than other stories. Do people like it? Well as you say, that’s down to individual tastes. The spoon playing chap never went away though.
 
Of course.

On the other hand, as a piece of art, objectively, Ghost Light and Fenric both have more going on than other stories. Do people like it? Well as you say, that’s down to individual tastes. The spoon playing chap never went away though.

You can't really say that those stories have anything over Silver Nemesis objectively. I'd argue they don't. There is no objectively better story in this instance, at least not that people can agree on. I'm not going to repeat my problems with GL/TCoF for the hundredth time, but I could easily argue that they are objectively bad stories, with huge flaws at basically every level. In the end, they're some of the worst of Classic Who I've seen (although not as bad as literally the worst Doctor Who story from either Classic or nuWho that I've seen, The Greatest Show in the Galaxy). No real point derailing the thread to argue that, though.
 
You can't really say that those stories have anything over Silver Nemesis objectively. I'd argue they don't. There is no objectively better story in this instance, at least not that people can agree on. I'm not going to repeat my problems with GL/TCoF for the hundredth time, but I could easily argue that they are objectively bad stories, with huge flaws at basically every level. In the end, they're some of the worst of Classic Who I've seen (although not as bad as literally the worst Doctor Who story from either Classic or nuWho that I've seen, The Greatest Show in the Galaxy). No real point derailing the thread to argue that, though.

Greatest Show as Well? That literally has the spoon playing in.
I like Nemesis myself...I can’t comment on any non Ace Sylvester stories though, as apart from Time and the Rani, I missed them at transmission and can only go from the novelisations. But...Ghost Light and Fenric are both very very dense narratives which carries right through into the production design. Nemesis..much as I like it...is not as dense. There are not as many things going on. Every story in season 26 had a lot of stuff below the surface...season 25 too, except for Nemesis, and, to an extent, Happiness Patrol. Season 24...was the beginning of this. It’s something Cartmel was definitely better at than his predecessor, Eric Saward, where most of the time what was going on beneath the surface was DEATH DEATH And more DEATH for many years (Not always a bad think...Revelation May have been totally bad for kids, and frankly a bit dull in places and almost bugger all to do with the Doctor...but it was certainly a layered story.) Cartmel actually succeeded in his intention to make Who more culturally relevant, more up to date, just so few noticed because of its slot and the prevailing winds in fandom which started with a whisper in the late Baker era, abated a little with Davisons early years, but were a full on Levine Storm by the Baker the Second era...only fed by some of the mistakes made in his tenure. Cartmel made the stories more adult, without losing kids, and without relying on a nihilistic core...Veangance On Varos and Mindwarp have their echoes in Paradise Towers and Happiness Patrol but are much better stories.
Sylvester stayed the clown, but he was an angry clown, raging at an unfair universe and fighting things that needed to be fought, with his best mate and surrogate daughter/granddaughter. It was very much a reaffirmation of the core character, not least in Nemesis, where he’s playing so many nasty ideologies against each other and getting them to destroy themselves. For the time, it was very much perfect, I say that as someone who was about seven at the time, and therefore Who’s main audience. The fact those last few seasons were echoed for the next twenty years, their effects plain in the success of the returned series, is not an accident. The fact Capaldi went back to the Colin Baker method was also quite telling with its comparative failure next to Smith and Tennant (who largely echoed the Seventh and Fifth Doctors.)
So...Nemesis...not as bad as some would claim, just not quite as effective as mix as the others. If we had say...Battlefield here, and Nemesis opening season 26, I think both those stories would be better received by fandom. (Battlefield has its flaws...casting and costuming mostly...but it’s far far better than fandom gives it credit for. I flipping love the Shou Ying scenes and the boom scene. And they aren’t even the best bits. Morgaine is.)
I know you have said you aren’t interested in derailing the thread (we aren’t, all of this is around the context of extended cuts like Fenric received, and the merits or failings of Nemesis.) but I am curious what fails you so badly in those other stories that you don’t see in these earlier Sylvester ones too.
 
I know you have said you aren’t interested in derailing the thread (we aren’t, all of this is around the context of extended cuts like Fenric received, and the merits or failings of Nemesis.) but I am curious what fails you so badly in those other stories that you don’t see in these earlier Sylvester ones too.

After Mel leaves, the Doctor basically becomes the Master. He tortures Ace for absolutely no reason (the real Doctor would never take her to the house from Ghost Light, or use her as a pawn against fenric, its totally against his entire sense of morality). He constantly fucks with her mind for no reason (like the absolute, complete piece of shit that is TGSITG, where he takes her to a circus literally because he's an asshole, or making her hang out with her, presumably, abusive or just shitty Mom as a baby while he's also using her as a pawn in that stupid, pointless game against Fenric). He's like a scientist who tortures creatures he believes beneath him for vague reasons.

When Mel was around, the 7th Doctor was kind and goofy and the writing didn't act like The Doctor is a sociopathic mastermind who is "always a step ahead". After cartmel came, he became a violent, heartless bastard (and also an immortal being who was born fully formed from a loom, but thank god NuWho tore that shitty masterplan to pieces by confirming that Galifrean's are born and grow up like humans do). I legitimately loathe the 7th Doctor after Dragonfire. The few good post DF stories (Silver nemesis, Battlefield, and Survival) are good despite the 7th Doctor. Its not McCoy's fault, when he got to play a real Doctor he was good. but after his first season he was no longer The Doctor, he was The Master with less bloodlust and insanity but just as much lack of sympathy or compassion.
 
After Mel leaves, the Doctor basically becomes the Master. He tortures Ace for absolutely no reason (the real Doctor would never take her to the house from Ghost Light, or use her as a pawn against fenric, its totally against his entire sense of morality). He constantly fucks with her mind for no reason (like the absolute, complete piece of shit that is TGSITG, where he takes her to a circus literally because he's an asshole, or making her hang out with her, presumably, abusive or just shitty Mom as a baby while he's also using her as a pawn in that stupid, pointless game against Fenric). He's like a scientist who tortures creatures he believes beneath him for vague reasons.

When Mel was around, the 7th Doctor was kind and goofy and the writing didn't act like The Doctor is a sociopathic mastermind who is "always a step ahead". After cartmel came, he became a violent, heartless bastard (and also an immortal being who was born fully formed from a loom, but thank god NuWho tore that shitty masterplan to pieces by confirming that Galifrean's are born and grow up like humans do). I legitimately loathe the 7th Doctor after Dragonfire. The few good post DF stories (Silver nemesis, Battlefield, and Survival) are good despite the 7th Doctor. Its not McCoy's fault, when he got to play a real Doctor he was good. but after his first season he was no longer The Doctor, he was The Master with less bloodlust and insanity but just as much lack of sympathy or compassion.

Interesting. So you don’t go with that angle he was fixing Ace by facing her fears with her, and that the Whole thing was caused by Fenric conjuring up the Time Storm in the first place?
The looms thing didn’t really come into it till long after it was off TV and Cartmel was there from Time and the Rani onwards. I think it’s the only script he personally didn’t OK.
 
Interesting. So you don’t go with that angle he was fixing Ace by facing her fears with her, and that the Whole thing was caused by Fenric conjuring up the Time Storm in the first place?

Reliving old traumas seems a waste of time. It's just desensitization. Or an attempt at it. Doesn't always work...

And when the Doctor warns her of her magical new powers in "Survival" and then goads her to use them an episode later so they can get back to the TARDIS, the phrase "sociopathic monster" really does fit. :( Still better than Saward's era in terms of having a consistent vision/direction, though... unfortunately.

The time storm explanation for The Wizard of Oz Dragonfire, as explained in "Fenric", pretty much makes sense - Ian Briggs probably set up the first story completely from the POV of Ace and leaving the viewer clueless and "Well, it's season 24 and it's all silly so why not?" being my impression. "Fenric" would not have been able to be made if Michael Grade hadn't left the BBC in 1987 since Grade wanted the sappy comedy and camp that season 24 is known for. He loved to bash the show for reasons he himself would have been able to fix (e.g. the lack of money to make it look as pretty as he wanted, since he vomited heaps of praises on the show in 2005 because it looked so pretty) but his departure assured the show could get rid of the ham and camp sandwich, leading to the rather improved seasons 25 and 26.
 
Reliving old traumas seems a waste of time. It's just desensitization. Or an attempt at it. Doesn't always work...

And when the Doctor warns her of her magical new powers in "Survival" and then goads her to use them an episode later so they can get back to the TARDIS, the phrase "sociopathic monster" really does fit. :( Still better than Saward's era in terms of having a consistent vision/direction, though... unfortunately.

The time storm explanation for The Wizard of Oz Dragonfire, as explained in "Fenric", pretty much makes sense - Ian Briggs probably set up the first story completely from the POV of Ace and leaving the viewer clueless and "Well, it's season 24 and it's all silly so why not?" being my impression. "Fenric" would not have been able to be made if Michael Grade hadn't left the BBC in 1987 since Grade wanted the sappy comedy and camp that season 24 is known for. He loved to bash the show for reasons he himself would have been able to fix (e.g. the lack of money to make it look as pretty as he wanted, since he vomited heaps of praises on the show in 2005 because it looked so pretty) but his departure assured the show could get rid of the ham and camp sandwich, leading to the rather improved seasons 25 and 26.

I am with you on the Grade thing.
The use of her Cheetah Woman side in Survival Though was very definitely Ace making a choice, because she knew it was the only way...the Doctor was somewhat churlish in that it appears he hopes one of the others will turn first. It’s also nice that Ace takes them home to the Tardis, not to Elsewhere in Perivale. The Doctor himself takes risks and changes himself in the story so there...I see it pretty much as equals. Fenric is where he learns he should have trusted her and not played his cards so close to his chest. Survival is where he shows he does so and values her, hence him riding the bike even though Ace is the coldly logical choice in that moment. He trusts her to control her inner beast as it were.
I actually started writing a novel I intended to submit in the old open submission days, where Ace and the Doctor go to see Mags from Greatest Show to help with Aces newfound. Heath planet stuff.

Hmm. I see your point on desensitisation, but she’s going to face worse travelling with him...and I always felt he put himself at risk too in most of these situations. This is especially true when you see things like their relationship in Battlefield. I think the sociopathic stuff is something that crops up more when they want to get rid of Ace in the NAs, Love and War, and before it Nightshade, are not their usual dynamic, and the Doctor I think has a breakdown certainly in Nightshades ending. Ace and The Doctor as a team of anti-totalitarian warriors though...I can see that. Ace is one of the few companions who in some ways becomes the Doctors equal or Family.
 
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