Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x08 - "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum"

[Crazy Eddie]

They stole the technology from Hur'q.

Nobody else but me seems to notice what they were implying in "Vulcan Hello." That the Beacon is ancient technology but is still, somehow, incredibly advanced. Also implying that ancient Klingons were very VERY smart, building artistic touches into their spacecraft and outposts that would make Starfleet piss in its collective panties.

In a sense, they're kind of drawing the Islam/ISIS connection here. T'Kuvma is a religious fanatic who wants to bring back the old unified Klingon Empire; in the real world, the Ottoman Empire used to be THE SHIT, they had the best scientists and mathematicians, the best military, the best schools. Then it fragmented, slipped into corruption and stagnation and a general standard of living that is barely acceptable even by their own standards. The few Islamic countries that are wealthy and stable are also corrupt as all hell, and the ones trying to make their best effort to actually do right by their people get rolled by terrorists, juntas, or manipulative pricks in the west playing power games.

tl;dr, the Klingon Empire is just a shell of what it used to be. The warrior class has taken over and they've turned their backs on art, science, music, literature, and ultimately even religion. If they seem backwards and barely competent, it's because they ARE. Doesn't mean that's how they've always been.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

^Yes, @Crazy Eddie, I think that's all very on point. I did have similar thoughts from the beginning as well, but since I didn't join in any discussions about the new show here until a little later I never got the chance to put is as well as you did there.

I'll have to check into it further, but I seem to recall that, in addition to the Mongols, the Ottomans were indeed one of the original sources of inspiration drawn upon for the Klingons in TOS, as well.

 

[McDuff]

I already posted my likes for the episode. My dislikes, already mentioned by others.

1) I would have preferred more interaction between Saru and the beings on the planet to better understand Saru's motivation and provide more meat to the alien beings "philosophy". It's a bit difficult to understand why Saru was so easily sway by them. Harmony with nature, no fear and peaceful coexistence is great but what about facing evil opponents (like the Klingon in this case), self-defense, personal freedom, individuality, lack of resources, etc. This would have provided more depth to the alien (and Saru).

2) It was already mentioned but Klingons should be more developed (politically). Like GoT we need to know the rules of the game (internally, externally) to understand the motivations and dilemmas of various Klingons leaders and factions. Why choose your enemy as your main interrogator (even if the Klingon leader ends up double crossing her)? Why crush all your enemy beside her? Is she important? Does she have a symbolic value, people backing her, supporters, is it for good PR? Usually, there's reasons for this but we are not given them. The fun of giving them is that it provides more depth to the Klingons.

Otherwise, this episode was great. Top quality TV.

 

[zar]

I was a bit puzzled myself. Enjoyed the episode, especially the L'Rell and Kat part, but I was expecting a lot more emotion based on what Mack said, to the point that I was thinking it may be a two parter. Is it a two parter?

The next episode isn't written by Beyer.

Keep in mind this was supposed to be the last episode before the break, up until after the first 2 episodes were already released (well after Mack's tweet).

https://trekmovie.com/2017/10/03/fi...o-nine-episodes-breaks-new-all-access-record/

I think what may have happened was it was originally one episode (by Beyer), then re-edited so the second half was part of episode 9. That would also explain why this one is shorter.

 

[Tuskin38]

Upside down Shenzhou class.

- starship Gagarin (sp?), what class? looks weirdly familiar

Shepard-Class.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Hurrah, an actual strange new world and new life form! (and an alien first officer with misophonia...) The planet bits actually felt kind of Stargate-ish, but I suspect that's cos it's filmed in Canadian woods now... The twists were a bit telegraphed, but I remain intrigued by Stamets's temporal or mirror quirks. (also he's cute)

And, fuck - a "to be continued" and next week is the last episode until the back half of January!

 

[Worf2DS9]

Key question:
What on Earth was up with the Klingon corpses? Why was she so aghast? Are they being eaten? Or is it that they have not put them in coffins yet?

I think it was just that she was seeing that her former comrades, whom she had left behind when she joined Voq, have been slaughtered by Kol and his followers. There's nothing like returning home and finding that all your friends have been eviscerated to get your blood boiling!

Also, has anyone explained why there's a Vulcan admiral in Starfleet? Spock was supposedly the first Vulcan in SF, yet this Terral must have joined far earlier than Spock if he's an admiral at this point.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Where in canon is it stated that Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet?

 

[GeekUSACarl]

I think it was just that she was seeing that her former comrades, whom she had left behind when she joined Voq, have been slaughtered by Kol and his followers. There's nothing like returning home and finding that all your friends have been eviscerated to get your blood boiling!

Also, has anyone explained why there's a Vulcan admiral in Starfleet? Spock was supposedly the first Vulcan in SF, yet this Terral must have joined far earlier than Spock if he's an admiral at this point.

Old thread, interesting read, not sure what to make of it

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/spock-first-vulcan-in-the-fleet.146400/

 

[Guy Gardener]

T'Pol got in with parallel rank.

Spock went to the Academy.

 

[Worf2DS9]

Where in canon is it stated that Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet?

Now that you're asking, I'm not sure. I thought that was a thing...

 

[137th Gebirg]

Where in canon is it stated that Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet?

Couldn't find anything in Memory Alpha about it. I don't think this is correct. There may have been some mention of it in one of the books, but the short answer to your question, I think, is, "it's not."

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Now that you're asking, I'm not sure. I thought that was a thing...

I heard it from a friend who heard it from her sister, who heard it from her dad, who heard it from Kirk

 

[137th Gebirg]

Real insiders...

 

[STR]

Where in canon is it stated that Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet?

It isn't. It's pure fanwank. Not good wank either, since they mention in TOS that the USS Intrepid had an entirely Vulcan crew.

Nothing worse than a bad wank...

 

[cultcross]

It also makes no sense that a founding Federation member would abstain entirely from Starfleet for that long.

It was just a way to make the TOS characters extra special, like the Kirk-is-t3h-awesome-captain thing which the movies picked up and ran with.

 

[137th Gebirg]

It also makes no sense that a founding Federation member would abstain entirely from Starfleet for that long.

They do seem to be some exceptionally racist (speciest?) assholes, though. The Intrepid was an all-Vulcan crew, and their behavior in both Enterprise and Discovery paint quite an unflatteringly self-segregating attitude against humanity, Andorians and other species. They made reference to the "Vulcan Expeditionary Force" a couple of eps back in Discovery, implying that they may, on occasion, operate in parallel to Starfleet but not as an integral part of it.

 

[matthunter]

If you want to make it "work", you could have Starfleet as relatively new in terms of training its own members, previously admitting trained personnel from the various agencies of other races i.e. the Intrepid could be a Starfleet vessel staffed by "liaison" personnel from the Vulcan Expeditionary Force or the Vulcan Science Academy. As someone trained to VSA standards, but not allowed into the VEF, Burnham was allowed to serve on a Starfleet ship given that she already met the bulk of their qualifications. Spock, on the other hand, chose to TRAIN with Starfleet exclusively.

I rather like the idea from the Last Unicorn Games RPGs that each of the founding members of the Federation got their own Constitution-Class ship to primarily staff with their own people and tweak as they see fit, explaining why the Enterprise was almost exclusively human-staffed in TOS (and the Intrepid as the Vulcan ship), with the in-game example of the Andorian USS Eagle (actually the At'lirith for the Andorian species which closely resembles the Earth bird) being tweaked for slightly higher phaser and shield output at the expense of some sensor capability, suiting the crew.

 

[Leonardo T. Dragon]

Five.

Michael is boring. We need a new lead character.

This may be the most true statement written about STD or DISCO or whatever we've settled on.

We've got one more episode left before the mid-season hiatus and only Stamets has proven interesting so far.

 

[Noname Given]

Also, has anyone explained why there's a Vulcan admiral in Starfleet? Spock was supposedly the first Vulcan in SF, yet this Terral must have joined far earlier than Spock if he's an admiral at this point.

^^^
I think the 430 Vulcan crewmembers of the U.S.S. Intrepid (one of whom must have made Captain rank - while Spock was still a Lt. Cmdr. - see TOS - "The Immunity Syndrome") would have issue with that statement.

(Seriously, NO WHERE in any TV episode or Star Trek feature film has it even been stated Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet/Starfleet Academy -- ever. You're confusing an often incorrectly held 'fanon' belief with actual Star Trek canon.)