Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x08 - "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum"

[dommecracy]

So Tilly is totally the captain in the Mirror Universe, right?

That's why Stamets was confused after the jump, he glimpsed into the MU through the magic of mushrooms.

 

[No Grave Dug]

I guess I'd like fewer things to be confusing. That's just me.

And those of you think Tyler is "someone else": is that serious or a humor meme making fun of Trek conspiracists?

If serious, how would that have been accomplished (physically speaking)?

^^^
Augment virus ( the Klingons had 90+ years to study it to make use of it) or surgical modification (it is the 23rd century and Klingons have similar tech to the Federation) - and there have been 'deep cover' Klingon spies before in Star Trek.

Remember:
- Voq's ship had been in the Battle zonmes for 6 months surveying every ship for usable parts.

- The last we see of Voq; L'Rell says she's going to introduce him to the House Mokai Eldersa and she has a plan but it will "cost him everything..."

- Ash was captured at the 'Battle of the Binaries' - and even Lorca found it odd someone survuived for 7 months. He alao states the ship's Captain 'took a liking to him...'

- The Captain of the ship Ash and Lorca were being held on was Captained bu L'Rell.

So yeah, the Klingons could (in those 6 months) found the records on a dead crewman that they think would work - and gave Voq (through medical means) the look of said crewman and trained or implanted memories that would allow him to fit in/function. I also am certain Lorca suspected and still ,may suspect - which is why Lorca didn't kill L'Rell during the escape (he's confident he can catch Ash and/or use this situation to his advantage and think's L'Rell was set up as Ash's Klingon operator/contact.

Of course given everything - maybe we who think this are giving the writing staff too much credit.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Reminded me of ENT: "Strange New World", in as much as it was old tropes being played out with the new crew. It was okay, but nothing special.

I like that they even managed to make a forest blue.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Why hasn't the show alluded more directly to his deceit and/or shown him doing something/anything that would be out of character for someone in Tyler's position?

The prevailing theory seems to be that Tyler doesn't know that he's Voq, and will be 'activated' somewhere down the line.

Me, I still hope Tyler isn't Voq. The physical transformation would be beyond Klingon technology. (Having it be a mind transfer from Voq's body into Tyler's would be even more outlandish, unless the House of Mo'Kai has somehow gotten ahold of the Turnabout Intruder machine.)

 

[Tuskin38]

The physical transformation would be beyond Klingon technology.

Doesn't need to be technology.

 

[pst]

I like that they even managed to make a forest blue.

money well spent.

According to After Trek a lot was cut out of it, in particular more scenes between L'rell and Cornwell

isn't one of the benefits of releasing a series on a streaming platform that it allows producers not to have to make cuts like this? i mean, netflix's marvel shows leave no lingering camera move, overlong pause, circular conversation, or incessant fight scene on the cutting room floor. this episode could've used some of that breathing room.

 

[donners22]

My least-favourite episode so far. Still decent, but the sequence of events on the Klingon ship was baffling and has left a lot of viewers confused. It feels like poor editing, as if key scenes were left out.

 

[eschaton]

So Tilly is totally the captain in the Mirror Universe, right?

That's why Stamets was confused after the jump, he glimpsed into the MU through the magic of mushrooms.

There is more than one alternate universe in Trek canon!

 

[DigificWriter]

I'm going to do a sort of "live post" as I watch the episode:
- No "cold open" again, which I'm sure is going to continue to give certain people fits

- Hey, this is Kirsten Beyer's first episode

- Nice battle, but where were Saru and Tyler? You would think they would've been on the bridge since they're both command-level officers. Sucks about the loss of that other ship, though

- After hearing about how he's the one powering the DASH drive for the last two episodes, we finally get to actually witness what Stamets goes through. Interesting that it possibly caused him to hallucinate and see Tilly as "Captain". Also interesting to see his causticness from Episode 3 come back as a defense mechanism

- Okay, THAT's where Saru and Tyler were: on assignment elsewhere

- Hmm. A "musical planet" is definitely something that sprang from the mind of Kirsten Beyer, as it's directly in line with some of the stuff she did in her Voyager novels; it's also quintessentially Star Trek- Now, that is cool. I'm not sure what to call that thing, but it kind of reminds me of the eponymous lifeform from Voyager's "The Cloud", which is probably another Kirsten Beyer influence

- Has Kol always had that elaborate face paint and I'm just barely noticing it now?

- It's nice to see that Burnham and Tyler's little love connection wasn't forgotten about as a casualty of Mudd's crazy time loop shenanigans from last week, and I find it interesting that Tyler recognizes the "needs of the many" but also can't escape the pull of what he calls the "needs of the few". Also, if the writers did truly intend to set up the "Voq is Tyler" thing, they're failing spectacularly, because the only thing this scene does is further cement him as fully human and make it harder and harder for people who buy the "Voq is Tyler" theory to justify and explain said theory

- We got that 'permanent' liplock from Burnham and Tyler that I was hoping for last week, which is nice

- I love Tilly; the more we see of her, the more convinced I become that she's me, just as a girl. Loved her use of the word "persnickety". Stamets opening up about what's happening to him was nice, and he does have a point about why it would be a bad idea to tell Culber about what's going on, but why couldn't he tell Discovery's CMO instead?

- I'm sorry, but I don't buy this "I wish to defect" claim from L'Rell. I also don't think the writers thought things through as far as making her the captain of that Klingon prison ship goes, because it didn't make sense at the time and still doesn't now, even 4 episodes later

- Okay, this isn't going to end well; I'm not sure what that creature did to Saru, but it's sending up red flags everywhere for me

- And now there are alarm bells going off. Saru is definitely not himself, and this is seriously bad news for Burnham and Tyler

- Admiral Cornwell's supposed death is more than bit suspicious, but because I don't buy L'Rell's sincerity, I also can't buy into the notion that it was staged, either

- Why did L'Rell assume that Kol killed her crewmates?

- And here we go with Burnham versus Saru. This was a pretty nice action sequence, although I wonder why the stun setting on Burnham's phaser didn't seem to have much effect on Saru

- Huh; apparently I was wrong that the creatures did something to change Saru's behavior, and he went a little bit nuts on his own. Interesting twist on the usual storytelling formula typically used for these kinds of stories in Trek

- The scene in sickbay between Saru and Burnham was really interesting because it gives us a lot of insight into Saru's character and why he behaves the way he does; it also makes me really want to know more about what led him to join Starfleet in the first place

- Hmm. The Klingons going to Pahvo can't mean anything good, but I'm also not sure what they can gain from it either. I guess we'll have to wait and see

- And right as I ask the question of "why", the show gives me an answer. The creatures on Pahvo were naively trying to help by inviting the Klingons to their planet, but this isn't going to end well for anybody

- Final thoughts: This was a really great episode that put a fresh spin on some very familiar Star Trek concepts, while also delving deeper into the characters and setting the stage for what looks to be a jam-packed "Fall finale" next week. I'm especially intrigued by the possibility of a fight between Burnham and Kol.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

money well spent.

isn't one of the benefits of releasing a series on a streaming platform that it allows producers not to have to make cuts like this? i mean, netflix's marvel shows leave no lingering camera move, overlong pause, circular conversation, or incessant fight scene on the cutting room floor. this episode could've used some of that breathing room.

The last interview we did on our podcast which will post in the next day or so, the actress discusses a scene that her character films with Michael, and it sounded like a great scene, not very long.

Not sure why it was cut. In fact the only complaint I have for all of the episodes is they all have seemed too short.

 

[Telltale Hearts of Qo'noS]

Overall, I enjoyed this episode, but it was definitely not a new favorite as each week has been so far. Maybe I was too excited for the planet-side story. Somehow checking off the boxes for Star Trek tropes wasn't as fulfilling as I thought it would be. It was nice to see Discovery being Star Trek-y, but it didn't seem to come together all that great. I basically liked all the individual parts but pacing seemed to get it jumbled together.

Intro battle sequence was great. Loved Captain Lorca being a captain, showing great leadership, and also those slivers of compassion in the time of crisis and grief. It was a nice modern version of the captain telegraphing the battle strategy, in that we actually get pretty dynamic exterior shots to accompany it.

The planet and the aliens were an interesting and out there idea. The idea was sufficiently TOS weird, and I do love energy beings. But yeah, did they build that hut for just in case they have meetings with aliens? Seemed slightly silly. Enjoyed Saru going all Spock/Data/Tuvok apeshit and doing the two fist bashing, but the build up to reveal that he had intent rather than being mind controlled could have been more powerful.

Klingon scenes have become a bit more TNG-y. I don't know what it is, maybe it's the lighting they're doing now (is it my imagination, or is the show brighter now?) but the Klingons are starting to act a bit campier or the production is less intent on showing DARK AND EVIL. The conversations are definitely more enjoyable now and I liked L'rell musing about honor. Felt like some good old fashioned Klingon honor-speak rather than generic diabolical alien.

All in all, great individual parts, but in all areas I feel like they could have done more.. felt like there was 1.75 episodes of story/development in 1 episode. Tyler/Burnham's development is going a lot faster than I thought it would, so I guess something dramatic is going to happen to them pretty soon. All the situations happen really quickly and leave awkward questions behind, as if they were rushing to that cliffhanger. Maybe this two-parter could have been better served as a three part story to flesh out some of the great stuff in it. I am a double-huge fan of Kirsten Beyer so maybe I just wanted to be absolutely enthralled by this episode and am disappointed that it wasn't a huge game changer.

 

[eschaton]

While I loved the sense of real action and dynamism in the ship-to-ship combat at the top of this episode, is it just me or is everything put through some weird blur filter? I mean, I've been rewatching DS9, and the really rudimentary CGI from 20 years ago looks better than Discovery - despite the show not even having been remastered. It almost seems like they decided that things initially looked too crisp and fake for Discovery, and arbitrarily decided to smudge everything a bit.

 

[_Roger_]

...Stamets is clearly feeling the full effects of the dimension/space hopping from the spore drive. Apparently, he's experiencing multiple realities and it's getting harder for him to tell them apart...

Yes, DNA merged Stamets-tardigrade-prototaxites-stellaviatori is getting a bit mixed up a la "Brundlefly". No problem - just send him through the transporter with the pattern buffer cross-circuited to the biofilter linked to the Federation DNA database suppressing selected neurotransmitter excess transcription and set the Heisenberg Compensator options for "multiverse virtual tachyon interphase dampening" and Stamets will come out of this just fine.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Yes, DNA merged Stamets-tardigrade-prototaxites-stellaviatori is getting a bit mixed up a la "Brundlefly". No problem - just send him through the transporter with the pattern buffer cross-circuited to the biofilter linked to the Federation DNA database suppressing selected neurotransmitter excess transcription and set the Heisenberg Compensator options for "multiverse virtual tachyon interphase dampening" and Stamets will come out of this just fine.

No, that's how he becomes Mirror Stamets.

 

[Ovation]

Yes, DNA merged Stamets-tardigrade-prototaxites-stellaviatori is getting a bit mixed up a la "Brundlefly". No problem - just send him through the transporter with the pattern buffer cross-circuited to the biofilter linked to the Federation DNA database suppressing selected neurotransmitter excess transcription and set the Heisenberg Compensator options for "multiverse virtual tachyon interphase dampening" and Stamets will come out of this just fine.

I don’t know if you’re joking, but if they show any inkling of doing something like this, I’m out.

 

[Charles Phipps]

5/10

I'm sorry, I just didn't much care for this episode and I'm usually very positive. Characters did a lot of acting but I'm not sure if any of it had been properly built up before it happened. I can't get a handle on L'Rell's personality, Saru's, or even Michael's and that hurts my understanding of what the hell is going on.

 

[Midquest]

The last interview we did on our podcast which will post in the next day or so, the actress discusses a scene that her character films with Michael, and it sounded like a great scene, not very long.

Not sure why it was cut. In fact the only complaint I have for all of the episodes is they all have seemed too short.

Yes, the only constant critique I can make so far is that the show seems to be working on a network TV model rather than slowing down, savoring the mechanics of plot and character, and aiming for a more filmic kind of cinematography a la Game of Thrones, House of Cards, and other digital platform shows. I recall someone in the production explicitly stating that they wanted to avoid longer episodes just because they can do longer episodes, which is not in itself a bad thing...but man, they could really use longer episodes.

 

[oberth]

Absolutely.
The writers seemed to be ignoring the Klingons as much as they can, they aren't giving a lot of weight to them.

This "season" of the show is going to be too short. They need more episodes and need to space out the Klingon story with more emphasis on their characters. Right now they are one dimensional whogivesacrap cardboard cutouts of bad guys, like straight outta the 80's.

an episode with nothing but klingons?

 

[DigificWriter]

CBS is a mainstream Broadcast Network; expecting it to change the way it produces and broadcasts television shows just because one of the shows it's broadcasting right now is Streaming-only is like expecting a Mexican restaurant to serve Chinese food.

 

[oberth]

Regarding Cornwell, I'm not sure what L'Rell's play was, here. The lingering shot of Cornwell. apparently lifeless on the floor, felt more like a "hey, pay attention, she might not be dead" kind of thing. If Cornwell is, in fact, dead did L'Rell just leave her there? If she's not dead, was the plan to stash Cornwell in one of the sarcophagi, attach it to the outside of the ship, then pick it up later?

cornwell is dead - l'rell uses the sarcophagus to revive her