Discovery and "The Orville" Comparisons

[gblews]

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I'm watching this review, I've seen a few videos with this guy already. He's a former star trek writer.

I'll be goddamned, this guy has an original copy of Heinlien's "Have Spacesuit, Will Travel", sitting on the bookshelf just above him and to his left. That is the first science fiction novel I ever read as a child. For anyone looking for a first sci fi novel for a young person, this is it.

 

[Vger23]

I just watched "The Krill."

Another enjoyable experience and episode. Definitely a 7/10. I don't think I'd rate any Orville episodes below a 5.

 

[Mechanoid1]

So what gives?

I hope my voice and all the other star trek lovers out there voice there opinions, likes and dislikes here on this Star Trek forum.
Why? To communicate to the powers in charge of scripting this up until now beloved star trek saga what is working, and what is not.
I guess we need 2 star trek boards. 1 for only the current disco story lovers, and 1 for only the current disco story haters. And neither group can ever mingle.
Honestly you just want 1 sided points of view that cater to your views. A general admiration society for star trek no matter how good or bad the story is.
I guess you don't want the writers to get feedback to what people actualy like and dislike about a show. Let them go down a single minded path. Blow smoke up there but's and yours too.
Sorry can't do it.
I love star trek too much to give up on it now no matter how bad this story is.
I as all others (including you) will be heard.

 

[fireproof78]

I hope my voice and all the other star trek lovers out there voice there opinions, likes and dislikes here on this Star Trek forum.
Why? To communicate to the powers in charge of scripting this up until now beloved star trek saga what is working, and what is not.
I guess we need 2 star trek boards. 1 for only the current disco story lovers, and 1 for only the current disco story haters. And neither group can ever mingle.
Honestly you just want 1 sided points of view that cater to your views. A general admiration society for star trek no matter how good or bad the story is.
I guess you don't want the writers to get feedback to what people actualy like and dislike about a show. Let them go down a single minded path. Blow smoke up there but's and yours too.
Sorry can't do it.
I love star trek too much to give up on it now no matter how bad this story is.
I as all others (including you) will be heard.

I'll leave @Vger23 to expand more, but I don't think myself or the DISCO "fans" (I'll use that term extremely loosely) want unending praise.

I don't know what smoke is being blown where, but I recognize DISCO has its problems. I just think it needs time to get the wrinkles ironed out as it tries something new.

Finally, does anyone here think Star Trek writers for DISCO read this BBS?

 

[marsh8472]

I rated the episodes on the site polls like this

Star Trek: Discovery 1x01 - "The Vulcan Hello" - 5
Star Trek: Discovery 1x02 - "Battle at the Binary Stars" - 6
Star Trek: Discovery 1x03 - "Context is for Kings" - 7
Star Trek: Discovery 1x04 - "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry" - 7
Star Trek: Discovery 1x05 - "Choose Your Pain" - 7
Star Trek: Discovery 1x06 - "Lethe" - 7
Star Trek: Discovery 1x07 - "Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad" - 8

 

[GeekUSACarl]

I think the fans of Discovery hate the comparisons with Orville because they hate being reminded that Discovery can do so much better and are confronted with the evidence of that with new episodes of Orville every week.

yeah i really dont think thats it. i dooubt writers over at discovery are thinkin " gee those orville characters are so well written" or that "gee i wish we did it like orville"

 

[Vger23]

I hope my voice and all the other star trek lovers out there voice there opinions, likes and dislikes here on this Star Trek forum.
Why? To communicate to the powers in charge of scripting this up until now beloved star trek saga what is working, and what is not.
I guess we need 2 star trek boards. 1 for only the current disco story lovers, and 1 for only the current disco story haters. And neither group can ever mingle.
Honestly you just want 1 sided points of view that cater to your views. A general admiration society for star trek no matter how good or bad the story is.
I guess you don't want the writers to get feedback to what people actualy like and dislike about a show. Let them go down a single minded path. Blow smoke up there but's and yours too.
Sorry can't do it.
I love star trek too much to give up on it now no matter how bad this story is.
I as all others (including you) will be heard.

There's nothing more sad than the fan who posts clinging to the misguided belief that a writer or producer is going to view their complaints and be like "you know....this person is right...we really SHOULD do a better job with this stuff."

So you're really not here to talk...you're here to post complaints and hope to change the course of the show to meet your specifications and tastes. Like...posting to an imaginary audience kinda.

It makes sense now. Perfect.

Good luck with all that.

 

[fireproof78]

yeah i really dont think thats it. i dooubt writers over at discovery are thinkin " gee those orville characters are so well written" or that "gee i wish we did it like orville"

"Clearly we needed more pop culture references as well. Quick, have a holodeck episode about zombies!"

 

[Vger23]

I'll leave @Vger23 to expand more, but I don't think myself or the DISCO "fans" (I'll use that term extremely loosely) want unending praise.

I don't know what smoke is being blown where, but I recognize DISCO has its problems. I just think it needs time to get the wrinkles ironed out as it tries something new.

Finally, does anyone here think Star Trek writers for DISCO read this BBS?

I neither expect unending praise nor complaints.

I expect to discuss the developments in the show. And, to your point, I show my love for the franchise by being FUCKING SUPPORTIVE in the early phases of a series. Not the opposite, where people show their love by being overly bitchy and critical, apparently.

I sure as hell don't post thinking someone on the writing staff is reading my posts and making story decisions based on that.

I watch the show. They write it. It ain't a committee process.

And oh yes...many of the detractors are motivated to post hoping that someone reads and utilizes their comments. It's insane.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

"Clearly we needed more pop culture references as well. Quick, have a holodeck episode about zombies!"

i wouldnt mind an episode where a lewd alien hits on the doctor

 

[Greg Cox]

By now Hollywood surely realizes that any high-profile project with geek appeal will generate a certain degree of "nerd rage" on the internet. It's just white noise at this point . . . .and the loudest voices seldom speak for the majority of viewers. Best to just trust your own instincts and judgement rather than take your marching orders from the internet.

 

[Vger23]

At this point, Hollywood surely realizes that any any high-profile project with geek appeal will generate a certain degree of "nerd rage" on the internet. It's just white noise at this point . . . .and the loudest voices seldom speak for the majority of viewers. Best to just trust your own instincts and judgement rather than take your marching orders from the internet.

Exactly.

The moment a football coach starts listening to the fans in the stands about whether to go for it on 4th down or not....he may as well hand the whistle and clipboard in right there.

No frigging way.

 

[marsh8472]

My favorite characters on Discovery were Commander Landry and Captain Georgiou who they killed off right away. Landry was cool kinda reminded me of B'Elanna Torres and Tasha Yar. Georgiou seemed sophisticated with a lot of wisdom, she could have maybe rivaled Picard. ah well

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I hope my voice and all the other star trek lovers out there voice there opinions, likes and dislikes here on this Star Trek forum.
Why? To communicate to the powers in charge of scripting this up until now beloved star trek saga what is working, and what is not.
I guess we need 2 star trek boards. 1 for only the current disco story lovers, and 1 for only the current disco story haters. And neither group can ever mingle.
Honestly you just want 1 sided points of view that cater to your views. A general admiration society for star trek no matter how good or bad the story is.
I guess you don't want the writers to get feedback to what people actualy like and dislike about a show. Let them go down a single minded path. Blow smoke up there but's and yours too.
Sorry can't do it.
I love star trek too much to give up on it now no matter how bad this story is.
I as all others (including you) will be heard.

As someone who does like Discovery and considers himself a lifelong Star Trek fan, if I didn't like Discovery I wouldn't watch it, plain and simple. Just because something has Star Trek in the title, is not enough for me to watch it. I don't particularly like TOS so I don't watch it. I don't like Star Trek Into Darkness, so I don't watch it. I think TMP, The Voyager Home, The final Frontier, Insurrection and Nemesis are terrible movies so I don't watch them. I also don't waste my time going into forums pertaining to the aforementioned to complain endlessly about why i don't like them and endlessly pick it apart and start arguments with people who do like these things.

I don't think anyone on the board has gushed about Discovery. I've observed that most people here use a great deal of critical thinking in their arguments about why Discovery does or doesn't work for them. Unfortunately, there is also a segment of people who rely on petty, passive aggressive threads and comments to bait people into arguments over and over again. It gets tiring after while. I can't speak for Vger23 but in my view constructive criticism is always welcome, it's when people hypocritically condemn Discovery for faults that they willingly overlook and accept in other series that we run into issues.

 

[marsh8472]

This is an interesting comparison on rotten tomatoes

 

[Prax]

Just saw the latest episode, and I have to say: It was cliché, predictable, and heavy handed; I am Very fond of it.

 

[marsh8472]

Maybe we want Star Trek to be like it used to be because the world seemed better then with more optimism for the future. Now in a post-9/11 world with wars/terrorists attacks where Robin Williams commits suicide, Bill Cosby rapes people, dummy Donald Trump things are more bleak so they have the Discovery series reflect that.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

If you don't like it, I'm fascinated to understand what compells you to continue to watch, vote in polls, and post in message boards dedicated to the show.

I mean, I don't like "Big Brother"....but I don't pop into the Big Brother forum to vote each episode as a "1," pick fights with fans of it about how it sucks, and generally act obnoxious about it. I just...you know...ignore it and everything to do with it. Like any sane human being would do with something they don't like.

So what gives?

I can understand. However I may not like a specific iteration of Trek, I'm always willing to give it a fair shot in the hopes that I find something I like. VOYAGER is my least favorite series, but if I had given up on that after a few episodes I would have missed out on some very episodes that the show was able to churn out. As a whole it wasn't the most satisfying Trek show, but I at least got some very strong episodes like "Scorpion" or "Living Witness". I did not like ST09. I think in many ways it's a terrible Trek film, but I still gave STID a shot because it had more promise and while imperfect I admire some of the directions it took. Then I gave Beyond a shot, and that was the first Trek film I genuinely enjoyed start to finish since the 90s.

I'm not loving Discovery, but the characters are slowly growing on me and I really look forward to seeing how the show ultimately pans out because I do think it's refreshing in some ways.

 

[Succubint]

"Clearly we needed more pop culture references as well. Quick, have a holodeck episode about zombies!"

And don't forget more dick, balls or women are bitches jokes. Gotta have those.

I jest, I jest. Despite me still heavily disliking the comedic aspect of the show (it just never lands for me but I've articulated why elsewhere), and the sometimes over-handedness with the preachy moral speeches, I do think think there's a lot to enjoy and savor with the show. Some of the characters I really like. Probably Kelly and Claire are my favorites. Because I can identify with them most, both as an over-achieving woman (who has been called a bitch from time to time) and a mother.

I see The Orville as a kind of nostalgic blanky when I view it positively and switch off my more critical/serious side. I think I am getting better at disregarding the things I regularly dislike and focusing on the good and the entertaining. The show did deserve a 2nd season. I think it could grow into something truly great in time. But it's not anywhere near there yet, in my opinion.

Adrianne Palicki is still my biggest girl crush. I'll watch any project she's involved in. I love how integral she is to the show.

 

[Succubint]

This is an interesting comparison on rotten tomatoes

Never heard of online brigades? It's a thing. The all female Ghostbusters is another example of coordinated online hate campaigns trying to game the system with reviews. Yes, there are a portion of disgruntled fans or should I say 'gatekeepers' of various franchise fandoms who regularly try to influence voting systems for obvious reasons.

As someone else pointed out here or on the Star Trek reddit, when a new episode drops, there are an unusual number of people dropping 1 votes on imdb within minutes of said episode ending. It takes a while for the ratings to course correct, so to speak. It's pretty obvious that there are haters trying to drive a negative online narrative for whatever reason they have.

ETA: corrected an error