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Spoilers How/Why are Eugenics Experiments Legally/Ethically Justified?

Eugenics can be kinda broad, but Eugenics as we know it is typically defined by scientific and culture endeavors amid relatively primitive scientific means. In fact eugenics seems to be viewed differently from generation to culture to scientific possibility. It's been a medical philosophy, social and cultural one among others.

For example to improve genetic quality of humans at some point was only achievable by selective breeding, sterilization of people or just plain mass execution.

These days the hot button issue is genetically modifying, turning some things off and others on, while the baby is being formed. This may have some existentially debatable implications but it isn't "horrific" than say, mass execution or forced sterilization.

In the future, it's conceivable that the idea behind eugenics would be viewed through a lens of not only more civilized science, but more civilized culture.

Genetically "fixing" a child shown to have down syndrome in it's early development in the womb could be considered a eugenics-esque concept, and I doubt anyone would bat an eyelash at it.

Then again, words seem to change with times as well, while the history of eugenics lends itself to kind of a broad definition it's also conceivable that the word itself could grow into only meaning more negative aspect of genetic manipulation thus becoming a bad word, fixing down syndrome in a fetus = a medical must while manipulating gene's for enhanced superiority ala "gattaca" = eugenics.
 
If Starfleet wants more Spore Drives fleet wide, they will need to get their own navigators. And so far the closest thing to an ethical navigation system is a eugenically altered human volunteer. Unless or unless they can find another suitable species that doesn't mind the pain, can come up with a method that doesn't involve stabbing, or can invent a supercomputer to replace the biological element/navigator. The M5 computer could probably do it.
 
If Starfleet wants more Spore Drives fleet wide, they will need to get their own navigators. And so far the closest thing to an ethical navigation system is a eugenically altered human volunteer. Unless or unless they can find another suitable species that doesn't mind the pain, can come up with a method that doesn't involve stabbing, or can invent a supercomputer to replace the biological element/navigator. The M5 computer could probably do it.

I'm willing to bet there are a ton of engineers working on that super computer thing to handle this.
 
If Starfleet wants more Spore Drives fleet wide, they will need to get their own navigators. And so far the closest thing to an ethical navigation system is a eugenically altered human volunteer. Unless or unless they can find another suitable species that doesn't mind the pain, can come up with a method that doesn't involve stabbing, or can invent a supercomputer to replace the biological element/navigator. The M5 computer could probably do it.

Asking for volunteers would be going into major dark grey territory. It is one thing for stamets to volunteer himself, but to openly ask for volunteers would be a problem.
 
The drive works only if you got a navigator. That's the limitation put on it at present. Sure you can jump from maybe Earth to the Moon with it without one. So either Starfleet needs to get tardigrades, which is likely to be considered unethical and slavery, they get voluntary human navigators to be souped up with DNA to fly the things, or they need a supercomputer right now, and that might be an issue.

So Starfleet is left with a bunch of Spore Drives that work, but don't have navigators to operate them. That is issue one. Issue two will be, what does this do, long term to the navigator? Issue three, which I think is coming, is does the spore drive jump only in time-space, or is it actually jumping dimensions every single time? And just the deviations in universes is so small that no one has noticed yet.
 
Saru tells Burnham that Tardigrade DNA cannot be used on a human because eugenics experiments are forbidden. Satmets injected himself and nothing was said about it that I can recall. Now they're using the spore drive every week and even had their doctor create implants for Stamets to assist in regular use. Why is it being allowed? Why no protests? Should they stop doing it? Lorca said "When I accepted the command, I was given the fullest latitude to fight this war how I saw fit." They mentioned starfleet regulation 13982 as justification for Lorca hiring Burnham. Is there likely something similar in place for eugenic experiments?
I imagine it went something like this:

DOCTOR: This violates Starfleet's laws about eugenics experiments!

LORCA: I don't care.
 
They need to find a species that actively derives pleasure from this kind of pain. Then they would have all kinds of volunteers. That sort of thing is not unheard of.

Kor
 
I've always presumed in the Trekverse genetic engineering in order to correct disorders is A-OK (which is part of why no present-day diseases exist any longer). It's trying to create something superior to the human baseline which has been outlawed.

Explicitly contradicted by LaForge - who was born congenitally blind. He even makes the point in The Masterpiece Society that he'd have been aborted had the Federation adopted the same stance. So either there are disorders they can't fix (and Geordi's parents chose to have him anyway) or there are rules against genetic tampering.

And what constitutes a disorder? Bashir's description of how he was prior to being enhanced makes it sound like he was mentally challenged - much slower than the other kids his age. If that sort of problem could be "fixed" then why wasn't it? Why did his parents have to go to the extremes of having him boosted to genius near-augment levels if they could just have had him tweaked to a "normal" IQ range?
 
They need to find a species that actively derives pleasure from this kind of pain. Then they would have all kinds of volunteers. That sort of thing is not unheard of.

Kor

Getting one that also has the right genetic compatibility might be trickier though - they stated they screened all humanoid species in the Federation database and ONLY humans came up as workable.
 
Getting one that also has the right genetic compatibility might be trickier though - they stated they screened all humanoid species in the Federation database and ONLY humans came up as workable.

Means the Klingons couldn't just take it and use it even if they enjoyed the pain.
 
Saru tells Burnham that Tardigrade DNA cannot be used on a human because eugenics experiments are forbidden. Satmets injected himself and nothing was said about it that I can recall. Now they're using the spore drive every week and even had their doctor create implants for Stamets to assist in regular use. Why is it being allowed? Why no protests? Should they stop doing it? Lorca said "When I accepted the command, I was given the fullest latitude to fight this war how I saw fit." They mentioned starfleet regulation 13982 as justification for Lorca hiring Burnham. Is there likely something similar in place for eugenic experiments?
I didn't see this thread - doh. I tend to agree on this. Stamets is clearly altering and his behaviour has changed. He shouldn't be allowed let alone enabled to be used this way.
 
Stamets' behavior has changed (he's actually nice to people now), but is it in any way out of line for a standard Starfleet psych profile?

Kor
 
This makes me think of Data gaining emotions in GEN. Singing that stupid "life forms" ditty at his console didn't affect the performance of his duties, but freezing up on an away mission definitely did. Yet Picard opted to keep him on active duty instead of granting his request to be deactivated.

Kor
 
Asking for volunteers would be going into major dark grey territory. It is one thing for stamets to volunteer himself, but to openly ask for volunteers would be a problem.

staments can at least claim he did it in a heroic self sacrifice to further the knowledge about all that spore stuff and that the ability to pilot the ship was some kind of unforseen by-product (how many people really know it, anyway?) - case closed

that's exactly the way how i'd sell it to starfleet :whistle:
 
Leyton the man who staged a military coup aimed at overthrowing the civilian government? Yeah, I think he was a tad worse than Lorca.
His heart was in the right place though. He did it in response to a dominion terrorist attack. Sisko understood it as "a desperate act of patriotism". Layton had supporters and was respected. Lorca seems cold and shady like killing his former crew and not going after Admiral Cornwall after she was captured.
 
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