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Discovery starship discussion [SPOILERS]

- Sarek's Vulcan ship is pretty neat. There's no full ring (which may or may not contradict the 32nd century Vulcan cruiser peeked at in ENT, or the Vulcan transports from TNG), but there's plenty of precedent for ringed and ringless Vuncan deisgns. If anything though, this really makes me think of the Goa'uld cargo ship from the Stargate TV franchise.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/vulcans1.htm

- Inside though there's a curious lack of chairs, though we really haven't seen much of the inside of Vulcan ships to comment. I did a quick look at the inside sets of the Tal'kir (ENT "Impulse") and lo and behold, very few seats to be seen...

- I looked up a few instances of exterior Discovery shots to see what the deal is with the glass ceiling on those connecting arms. In this episode, it is literally the only one that is lit out of the four arms. There IS a corresponding shape on each arm that could be an unlit or covered-over corridor, but I'm wondering if it's a retcon of sorts. Also, the connecting arm we do zoom in on does not have a lower piece that is nominally glowing red in other external shots. Here, there is what looks to be a similar glass-ceilinged corridor underneath (and slightly offset, so the glass ceiling would actually be visible), showing that the arms are at least two decks thick. I think the scale is slightly off here (the "rabbits teeth" windows two decks up from there don't look big enough), so I think this is not something they were initially planning to do when they built the model, much like I'm sure the model didn't have the window on the lower deck corresponding to the Tardigrade's first home.

- I'm pretty sure that both Burnham and Tilly are running funny-like to exaggerate their movements, making it look so slightly like they're running faster when they're actually not. For all the corridors they LOOK like they're running through, they really don't have that much real estate to cover before they run out of set. :)

- Tyler says his mum died in an accident on her way to one of the "moons of Grazer". Jaresh-Inyo, the President of the Federation in the early 2370s, is a Grazerite.

- I recognize that people will be wondering just HOW holodeck this holodeck is. My guess it's more hologram than solid - Tyler does at one point slap a corridor panel to open a door, so would that have been projected, or are we expected to think he's miming an interaction with the image?

- The actual set for the holo-room (sic) and the adjoining armory / prep room hasn't been seen yet. Without looking too closely at it, my guess is that it's a redress of the airlock set briefly seen last week. The holo-room has these large slideaway walls which we haven't seen before either, which have the ship's seal and name proudly emblazoned across two segments of said wall / door. The holo projectors also seem to be not quite integrated into the room, with cables running around the floor. Some have suggested this is an experimental system, this could mean that Discovery wasn't built with it in mind.

- The phaser rifles must have some sort of gyro in them telling them how to orient the display when latched into their racks. Otherwise, the kill counter would have been displayed upside down when Lorca went to read them.

- Tilly was likely being sarcastic when she was asking for (extra green) green juice, but we KNOW that Starfleet computers can be notoriously anal about instructions. OTOH, there IS an Earth menu page on the display hanging above the entrance, with categories for each meal plus a "Misc" group. I'd love to get a closer look at that. In any case, the computer is being facetious back at the crew with that condescending spiel about nutrition. Just because IT doesn't eat...

- The food slot has the same bumpy foam surface as the uniform slot in their quarters, suggesting that both work on the same technology and presumably can create both categories of stuff if need be.

- In Sarek's Happy Place, we see Asian-looking Vulcans for the first time in a long time, no? There were very Asian-looking Vulcan monks in ST3, but I can't recall of any prominent Vulcans of that ethnicity in recent incarnations. Not that it matters or anything - and hey, that silent Vulcan admiral is back this week, speaking all Vulcan and stuff by holocomm!

- The CMO of the ship is still MIA. Culber is seen filling the role again, inasmuch as Stamets is doing ALL the traditional Chief Engineer stuff. I'm guessing it is a deliberate attempt by the creators at showing people not in the traditional positions aboard ship, but this episode seems to overlook that there are still missing CMO and CEO characters, or at least extras filling the bill.

- Either Lorca's family has created a much better fortune cookie, or Lorca likes to keep it dry in his ready room, because leaving a batch of regular cookies out like that would typically result in a batch of spongy, chewy cookies before too long. At least where I grew up. :)

- The writers realy picked some good names out of the wikis this week. Grazer, the Yridia nebula...

- In the only real bridge scene of the episode, Burnham seems already at home on the bridge, even taking over the equivalent station she had on the Shenzhou. No one was AT the station when she arrived on the bridge, but no one threw her off of it, so she must have gained bridge station clearance since last week... And a prominent one at that.

- There's at least one other cadet aboard. The PA calls for "Cadet Wells" to report to Engineering. Perhaps Stamets has had the latitude to recruit further pre-grads into his flock?

- Discovery is really the only Starship to apparently use her shuttlebay as a regular cargo storage area. Every other ship doesn't seem to have a problem clearing their landing areas of those ubiquitous barrels and cargo doodads. They're often there (depending on the preference of the props master or director of photography that week), but Discovery seems to ALWAYS have them there. Good thing they're CG, so the crew won't have to worry about it that often. ;)

- The the Discovery "Seal" that the shuttles park on has the tip of the delta facing the front of the ship, but as the shuttles depart, the top of their landing zone letter (A, B or C) is oriented to the stern? I guess it doesn't matter THAT much since the seal seems to also be a turntable, but still...
 
I'm sort of thinking the putative "regular" Crossfields have a lot of auxiliary craft capacity, with that wide door plus a deep bay, and the two S-drive testbeds have sacrificed that and therefore suffer from an acute lack of space to put their shuttles and associated consumables in. Basically, I'm still riding the old "triangle-hulled ships are shuttlecarriers" fan bandwagon.

We hear of "Dock 3" for the shield test, and "B Deck" and "Cargo Bay 5". I wonder how byzantine the "system" aboard will be eventually. Have there been dialogue references to numbered decks so far? Lettered ones other than B? Graphic references other than the ambiguous door markings?

Is the "7th moon of Eridani D" bit a hopelessly late attempt to "correct" the way Star Trek names its planets? ITRW, we now do it with (lowercase) letters for whatever reason, while Trek has solidly established Roman numerals as the system in use from day zero on. Or is there a star called Eridani D, and the moons there are spectacular even though none of the planets are worth a mention? Is this a "Dytallix B" thing?

Timo Saloniemi
 
Perhaps the Federation uses a hybrid naming convention for planets and stars. Using at least both Earth and Vulcan stylings since they use M-class planets as a shorthand for part of the Vulcan classification system.
 
Perhaps the Federation uses a hybrid naming convention for planets and stars. Using at least both Earth and Vulcan stylings since they use M-class planets as a shorthand for part of the Vulcan classification system.

Unfortunately a retcon of previous Trek naming convention. Blame the IAU?
Rather multiple naming conventions over Eridani D planet.
 
- Waugh! Someone with a REALLY good eye has discovered that the T'Plana-Hath Vulcan lander is in the EXTREME background of Sarek's Happy Place! There are some other very typically red small ships back there too, it really makes you wonder...

- Thinking about how Burnham transfered to Starfleet without having to go to the academy. It seems pretty clear here that via Sarek, she got equivalent credit after having been through the Science Academy. Perhaps she had to take an exam or two, but it seems clear (at least from a Vulcan's perspective) that she had more than the minimum competency required to excel in the "lower" Starfleet.

- And also seeing how this fits in with the overall organization of the Federation's space programs in this era. We haven't heard of the Vulcan Expeditionary Group before this, but in my mind it must be the equivalent of the UESPA banner that the Enterprise occasionally flies. In other words, at least some of the member worlds maintain their own exploration / maybe paramilitary groups that are analogous to Starfleet, while at the same time supporting the multispecies fleet initiative. Some ships of Starfleet could then operate "legacy" missions for organizations like UESPA, bearing the flag of the mission while at the same time operating as a member of the Federation. So, the Enterprise would be going around at least partially under the flag of UESPA and claiming new planets in the name of the United Earth, while the Intrepid and her crew would be flying with a VEG flag to plant on their new worlds too. Interesting thought exercise for this era.

- When Burnham wakes with a gasp in sickbay, the display behind her notes that she is patient #403722. The same graphic was showing the Tardigrade's vitals not too long ago. Well, either "Lungs 1/2/3" means something different, or Burnham REALLY isn't quite human, as those same numbers appear after her lungs, kidney, and stomach too!

- So IS there a reason that Cornwell shuttled over instead of beaming? It's not as though intership transport isn't commonplace by now. I'm wondering if, since we don't see her "cruiser", that some writer was thinking that Cornwell coming over on a wee shuttle, especially considering how Lorca got abducted doing exactly that last week, would be a silly mistake to repeat. So, they switched it up in a VO line that she'd come in on a bigger ship. Still, a Starfleet shuttle is seen outside the building on Cancri, and Cornwell has the same two guards she left Discovery with...

- Tyler pilots Disco-1 into the nebula, departing from track B in the shuttlebay. Continuity-wise, Cornwell's shuttle was on track B when she left, and fittingly, Disco-1 was over on C, meaning that the Admiral's pilot decided to land centrally. 'Cuz she's an admiral and all. :)

- On the PA towards the end: "Attention all B-Deck crew: Transpo drill has been cancelled".

- Wherever Lorca's qutarters are located, it's in some sort of controlled area of the ship, as there's a separate set of doors from what looks to be the regular corridors to whatever section of corridor his quarters are in. The senior officers are here? Or maybe it has to do with Lorca's eyes, since the section's lights are off...

Looking ahead, from the trailer for 1x07, anyone notice the alien space suit has a pair of (IMO) telltale antenna on the helmet..?

Mark
 
In DS9, a "Vulcan science vessel" is on multiple occasions considered an asset that can do things behind Starfleet's or even the Federation's back - encountering aliens before they actually make First Contact with the Federation, arranging for the disappearance of a fugitive, etc. I'm sure the VEG could be used as the operating organization for that kind of vessel, although there's probably a whole continuum of organizations from federal government to local government to utterly commerical or private or religious or whatever.

I'd hate to have to call Cornwell's shuttle a "cruiser" even if this might be excusable in some contexts. She probably has personal bodyguards, and a chauffeur the Klingons slaughtered off camera, and possibly other retinue as well. Perhaps the reason she brought the shuttle along was because she wanted to bring these personnel along, without announcing them at the transporter room? That is, she thought it a good idea to have her own surprise gunmen in case something drastic had to be done about Lorca...

Timo Saloniemi
 
Cloaking is now something Kol can donate forward. So he didn't get a black box device from T'Kumva's ship, he got specs that allow him to build cloaking devices of his own. I wonder if he will ever bother to build another cleave ship?

I mean, going for "traditional" cloakships would seem advantageous strategically, even if it's impossible to fire or even arm weapons under cloak and cleave ships therefore make tactical sense. Deploy those Birds of Prey from A to B under cloak and then proceed from B to battle at C uncloaked and weapons hot, and they're just as deadly as the Discovery, reproducing her "ghost" routine by alternate means.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Thinking about how Burnham transfered to Starfleet without having to go to the academy. It seems pretty clear here that via Sarek, she got equivalent credit after having been through the Science Academy. Perhaps she had to take an exam or two, but it seems clear (at least from a Vulcan's perspective) that she had more than the minimum competency required to excel in the "lower" Starfleet.

- And also seeing how this fits in with the overall organization of the Federation's space programs in this era. We haven't heard of the Vulcan Expeditionary Group before this, but in my mind it must be the equivalent of the UESPA banner that the Enterprise occasionally flies. In other words, at least some of the member worlds maintain their own exploration / maybe paramilitary groups that are analogous to Starfleet, while at the same time supporting the multispecies fleet initiative. Some ships of Starfleet could then operate "legacy" missions for organizations like UESPA, bearing the flag of the mission while at the same time operating as a member of the Federation. So, the Enterprise would be going around at least partially under the flag of UESPA and claiming new planets in the name of the United Earth, while the Intrepid and her crew would be flying with a VEG flag to plant on their new worlds too. Interesting thought exercise for this era.

I wonder if this potentially leads into Kirk having served with the Vulcan fleet for a time on the "Vulcanian Expedition". Like a single tour on a Vulcan ship. Maybe as part of an exchange related to the Axanar Peace Mission, where Kirk mentions it as being a reason for Spock and him to be like brothers.

Could this mean that Kirk could have taken Burnham's roll as the first human in the Vulcan Expeditionary Group. If only for a short time? Along with the eventual Lt. Timothy who we saw in "Court Marshal"?
 
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Hey Axanar may be a horrible mess of a mess, but I liked the Ares. :) Plus, that painting deserves to be in someone's ready room!

Re: Cloaking, it's been known pretty much from the beginning (TOS: "The Enterprise Incident") that a cloaking device is a discrete apparatus that can be separated / stolen from the ship it's mounted into. There's never been any real indication that a ship needs to be built specifically for cloaking, only that the device is powerful enough to cover the ship in question or for long enough. Granted, this could have been early days as everyone is pretty surprised that a ship could be cloaked at all, but there are two distinct designs that were shown with the capacity in TBOTBS.

Mark
 
Yup. What I meant with "black box" is that clearly T'Kumva didn't just come to possess two pieces of divinely advanced and utterly mysterious technology that he plugged into those two ships in his possession - he possessed the secret of how cloaking works, and could have that secret pried from his dead hands by Kol so that mere Klingons could then manufacture further cloaking devices, for whichever need.

This, or then he had a cache of mysterious cloaking boxes from his so far unidentified supplier, and Kol stole those. And when Kol runs out of the boxes, he runs out of cloaking capacity.

In the latter scenario, we get timid Klingons, unwilling to risk their irreplaceable ships...

I wonder if this potentially leads into Kirk having served with the Vulcan fleet for a time on the "Vulcanian Expedition". Like a single tour on a Vulcan ship. Maybe as part of an exchange related to the Axanar Peace Mission, where Kirk mentions it as being a reason for Spock and him to be like brothers.

Could this mean that Kirk could have taken Burnham's roll as the first human in the Vulcan Expeditionary Group. If only for a short time? Along with the eventual Lt. Timothy who we saw in "Court Marshal"?

I think the best argument against this is that if Burnham couldn't make it, neither Kirk nor Timmy boy would have a snowball's chance in the Forge!

"The Expedition" was clearly a singular event, the Expeditionary Group an organization. Fitting the two together is doable - the latter could arrange examples of the former every now and then (and "the" one would be the one in Kirk's lifetime or career), or then learn from the one and only that humans and Vulcans really don't mix (so there's no other Expedition besides "the").

Timo Saloniemi
 
It is pointed out that Burnham could make it and was rejected not on her merits but on Sarek's choice on Spock over Michael (since the Vulcans would only accept one of his "humans", not both).

I wonder if the cloaking technology will be limited to the House of Kor under Kol? It might give rise to very few Klingon ships having cloaking devices until the Romulans reenter the picture. Either because the Klingon Empire managed to make a trade and thus put House Kor's monopoly out of business, or because it comes out that T'Kumva's cloak and thus Kol's cloak are actually being supplied by the Romulans to start with.

They do need to do something about these ornate Klingon ships though. They don't fit the more industrial wartime Klingon look of earlier and later shows. Unless of course they want to make it so that the Klingons start using Romulan designs in secret and only later does the Federation discover the Romulans using the same design, assuming it to be of Klingon origin because they see it used by the Klingons first before they have reestablished contact with Romulus.
 
I'd hate to have to call Cornwell's shuttle a "cruiser" even if this might be excusable in some contexts. She probably has personal bodyguards, and a chauffeur the Klingons slaughtered off camera, and possibly other retinue as well. Perhaps the reason she brought the shuttle along was because she wanted to bring these personnel along, without announcing them at the transporter room? That is, she thought it a good idea to have her own surprise gunmen in case something drastic had to be done about Lorca...

Timo Saloniemi

Perhaps there's a version of the TMP warp sled just off screen? One equipped with plenty of weapons and a detachment of security officers for the Admiral's protection.

Spock went to the trouble of docking with the Enterprise too, even though they had fixed the transporters by then.
 
There was the old fan-made design "Killer Bee" which was more based on a weaponized work bee concept, but it possessed a similar overall shape to the Vulcan shuttle with the skid/sled attachment.
 
Could Ships not designed for cloaking devices be easier to detect?
To keep with prior Canon Kol's cloak and specs need to vanish?
 
Could Ships not designed for cloaking devices be easier to detect?
To keep with prior Canon Kol's cloak and specs need to vanish?
I suppose there could be an argument that certain ships are specifically shaped to use a cloaking device more efficiently. There has been no on-screen evidence of this, however. To the contrary, in fact, when the TOS-E was clearly never designed to support a cloak, yet Scotty was able to install one, from a foreign electro-mechanical system, in relatively short order and function well enough for the Enterprise to not be seen by the people who allegedly invented it.

The conclusion to draw from this is that the function of a cloaking device is apparently a binary state. Either it works or it doesn't.
 
Funnily, "Balance of Terror" would have us believe that making things visually undetectable is demanding but binary, while a visually undetectable ship can still be tracked by other means - while ST3:TSfS tells us a cloak is exposed by its imperfect visual illusion, a glimmer the helmsman has to look for, while sensors can do zip until the enemy decloaks. That doesn't even give us a four-field, it gives us a contradiction.

I don't think we need to worry about Klingon cloaks disappearing after DSC and before TOS. There's no need for them to disappear. Klingons in TOS can easily be cloaking-capable, and Klingons in the TOS movies are expected to be cloaking-capable - Kirk thinks that finding a cloaked ship at Genesis is proof positive that there are invisible Klingons there.

Invisibility in TOS is humdrum and unsurprising in general. "Balance of Terror" is an odd anomaly amidst the other evidence, is all - it won't become any easier to fit that square peg into the invisible hole, whether we "negate" T'Kumva's cloaks after DSC or not.

Getting back to the world of DSC itself, we have every reason to think Starfleet knows about Klingon invisibility: there are survivors from the one battle where the ability was used. Yet our heroes never worry about invisible Klingons lurking around. Nor is cloaking stated to be the secret to the Klingon penetrating raid against Corvan, or to the ability to abduct Lorca, or anything else like that. Should we deduce that not even Kol's faction has managed to turn the cloak into a practical weapon yet, and that Starfleet in fact has never encountered another invisible Klingon opponent (and lived to tell the story)?

Timo Saloniemi
 
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