Reversed Ferengi

[Bry_Sinclair]

I've had a thought, what if when the Ferengi had been developed the PTB had flipped the gender roles, making females the ones with all the rights whilst males were kept naked at home? Might that have added another angle to them and the inequities between men and women in our time, seeing what it would be like if the shoe was on the other foot?

What would that mean for Quark? Would the character be a traditional female? Or a male disguising himself to do business in a females world?

Thoughts?

 

[Mattadd]

Sounds like Angel I. Which was a particularly terrible episode of TNG.

 

[Kor]

The Ferengi would have had even less respect for Picard and Sisko, probably demanding Oomox from them, and otherwise only dealing directly with female officers.

And Quark's bar would have had scantily-clad Dabo guys.

Kor

 

[TheCrankyCardassian]

I believe that this premise shall haunt my dreams for some time to come.

 

[F. King Daniel]

When I saw this thread, I was expecting violent hippies, forcibly sharing wealth throughout the galaxy.

Genderswapped Ferengi would probably get flak for a bunch of women being evil.

 

[USS Triumphant]

And Quark's bar would have had scantily-clad Dabo guys.

I was seriously considering the OP's notion, but hadn't come to this part of it yet.

Anything that eliminates Chase Masterson as a Bajoran Dabo girl from the timeline is an evil that must be stopped.

 

[JesterFace]

Sounds like Angel I. Which was a particularly terrible episode of TNG.

Fortunately men in that episode had clothes... except Riker's nipple.

 

[WraithDukat]

Space Corbyns?

 

[Tenacity]

Genderswapped Ferengi would probably get flak for a bunch of women being evil.

While we did see a few Ferengi who I would describe as "evil," generically the Ferengi people were not evil. Unless you consider capitalists as a group to be evil, which I don't.

As a old-school feminist I think feminists of the 1980's/90's might have approved of the depiction of a entire fictional species where the females were in charge of the society. Although the level of subjugation aspect of the opposite sex might not have gone over well.

It would have depended on how TPTB pulled it off. Gene Roddenberry was a incredible misogynist, and so his vision of a female dominated society could have been more twisted than a male dominated Ferengi society.

Interesting thought experiment.

 

[USS Triumphant]

While we did see a few Ferengi who I would describe as "evil," generically the Ferengi people were not evil. Unless you consider capitalists as a group to be evil, which I don't.

That depends. Would you consider the antebellum American South "evil"? I would*. It doesn't necessarily mean all of the individuals there were, or even most, but it really does reflect the adage that "all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing".

The Ferengi aren't just "capitalists". They keep their females in what amounts to slavery, and many aren't opposed to participating in actual sapient-trafficking.

*To head off anyone who might feel provoked, I'm from here, and I'm not down on the South, I just know we have a regrettable history.

 

[Tenacity]

I just know we have a regrettable history.

A little research and most peoples do.

 

[USS Triumphant]

A little research and most peoples do.

True. But ours still plays a prominent role in our society - still ongoing in some ways, not forgotten, and not entirely forgiven, yet.

 

[FormerLurker]

That depends. Would you consider the antebellum American South "evil"? I would*. It doesn't necessarily mean all of the individuals there were, or even most, but it really does reflect the adage that "all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing".

The Ferengi aren't just "capitalists". They keep their females in what amounts to slavery, and many aren't opposed to participating in actual sapient-trafficking.

*To head off anyone who might feel provoked, I'm from here, and I'm not down on the South, I just know we have a regrettable history.

The strangest part about it is that the Ferengi aren't capitalists because they want that type of economic society. Capitalism is a means. The entire species are a collective of hoarding packrats. The only reason they crave money is because it's the most efficient way for them to acquire stuff. Think about it. Quark never reminisces about how much money he had as a child, he pines for the toys and other things he had.

 

[Six of Twelve]

While we did see a few Ferengi who I would describe as "evil," generically the Ferengi people were not evil. Unless you consider capitalists as a group to be evil, which I don't.

As a old-school feminist I think feminists of the 1980's/90's might have approved of the depiction of a entire fictional species where the females were in charge of the society. Although the level of subjugation aspect of the opposite sex might not have gone over well.

It would have depended on how TPTB pulled it off. Gene Roddenberry was a incredible misogynist, and so his vision of a female dominated society could have been more twisted than a male dominated Ferengi society.

Interesting thought experiment.

I'm an old second wave feminist and I don't like stereotyped roles for the sexes, reversed or not. They are painful to watch. I much prefer the planets that had egalitarian societies where what one did or what kind of personality one had could not be predicted by their sex.

Nor did I like that one episode where they were all alike and ignored the biological realities of having a sex. Can't remember the name of it, but it centered on Riker and a woman who fell in love with him (Soren?) contrary to the taboos of her society. Eradicating stereotyped sex roles doesn't mean everyone has to be alike as colorless drones or to deny romantic relationships or that people come in two sexes.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

When I saw this thread, I was expecting violent hippies, forcibly sharing wealth throughout the galaxy.

Genderswapped Ferengi would probably get flak for a bunch of women being evil.

Are you saying women can't be greedy bastards as good as men?

#She-rengi #Feminism

 

[JirinPanthosa]

While we did see a few Ferengi who I would describe as "evil," generically the Ferengi people were not evil. Unless you consider capitalists as a group to be evil, which I don't.

As a old-school feminist I think feminists of the 1980's/90's might have approved of the depiction of a entire fictional species where the females were in charge of the society. Although the level of subjugation aspect of the opposite sex might not have gone over well.

It would have depended on how TPTB pulled it off. Gene Roddenberry was a incredible misogynist, and so his vision of a female dominated society could have been more twisted than a male dominated Ferengi society.

Interesting thought experiment.

Capitalism on its own is not evil, but Ferengi is not a libertarian capitalist society. Besides the fact half the population are slaves, the Ferengi do not have economic freedom. The Nagus can come and seize anybody's property at will. Unions are violently suppressed. There are all these weird conditions where they can come and seize all your assets with no recourse.

In a true capitalist system, an educated person with a good idea who works hard can become rich through delivering the best product at the best prices. In Ferengi society competition is suppressed from the top. It's more an economic dictatorship than capitalism.

The slavery of women is very much evil, and the 'exploitation' behavior to lock people into horrible work conditions with no right to unionize, and backroom deals with the powerful to stifle right to compete are evil.

Hehe. "What kind of corrupt economic dictatorship would allow the richest people to bribe politicians to pass laws to prevent anyone from competing with them?!" I guess if anything Ferengi society is a little more honest, at least they openly call them 'bribes'.

 

[Tenacity]

The only reason they crave money is because it's the most efficient way for them to acquire stuff.

Only in part. Physical money does hold status in of itself. Acquiring property (businesses, warp shuttles or entire moons) is a source of societal position, but so is personal wealth.

Capitalism on its own is not evil, but Ferengi is not a libertarian capitalist society.

According to some of the fans, neither is the Federation.

Besides the fact half the population are slaves

I don't think that's what's going on with the Ferengi women.

While women by all accounts are second class citizens, what happened at the end of Roms first marriage indicates that women are not powerless slaves.

Quark comes right out in one episode and states that the Ferengi are better than Humans because (one of the reasons) they've never had slavery.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Yeah, he said that because he doesn't think of female slavery as slavery because he doesn't think of Ferengi women as people. What would you call it? They are expected to submit and follow all commands from males, they are forbidden to wear clothes, and if they earn profit they are expected to give it back. What happened at the end of Rom's marriage was not his wife's action, it was her wife's father's action. He wanted to get higher value for his asset than he got with her married to Rom.

Rom's wife didn't leave Rom, she was repossessed.

 

[MAGolding]

While we did see a few Ferengi who I would describe as "evil," generically the Ferengi people were not evil. Unless you consider capitalists as a group to be evil, which I don't.

As a old-school feminist I think feminists of the 1980's/90's might have approved of the depiction of a entire fictional species where the females were in charge of the society. Although the level of subjugation aspect of the opposite sex might not have gone over well.

It would have depended on how TPTB pulled it off. Gene Roddenberry was a incredible misogynist, and so his vision of a female dominated society could have been more twisted than a male dominated Ferengi society.

Interesting thought experiment.

The original Ferenghi seen in TNG were mostly spaceship crews and space representatives and space businessmen. The spaceship crews seemed willing to fight to keep stolen property in the first episode, like space pirates, and in the secend Ferenghi episode it was learned that a Ferenghi ship made an unprovoked attack on a starship. The earliest Ferenghi seen were more like Klingons than like Cyrano Jones. So the first Ferenghi in TNG seemed reasonably evil, later ones seemed more like standard representatives of a galactic power, and only in DS9 did we see what stay at home, average, normal Ferenghi were like.

 

[FormerLurker]

The only reason they crave money is because it's the most efficient way for them to acquire stuff.

Only in part. Physical money does hold status in of itself. Acquiring property (businesses, warp shuttles or entire moons) is a source of societal position, but so is personal wealth.

Once again, though, personal wealth is only seen as an asset for the acquisition of more stuff. Without the wealth, they can't acquire, so the acquisition of wealth is seen as a positive trait.

The best businessmen are the ones that can bring in the most wealth, on Earth as on Ferenginar, but on Ferenginar they're second to the ones that can bring in the most wealth both before and after using it to acquire possessions. The more wealth, the more possessions one is capable of acquiring, the more possessions one has, the more bargaining power one has to acquire wealth, with which to acquire possessions. They're called the Rules of Acquisition because they represent the gathering of possessions, more than the gathering of wealth.

As I said before, money is a means. Even when Quark, Brunt, Rom, or Zek went on about profit, it was always couched in how it could be used, not in how it could be socked away. A Ferengi that couldn't acquire profit was a Ferengi that couldn't acquire stuff, and was therefore worthless.

 

[Tenacity]

with no right to unionize.

Trading one dictatorship for another?

###########:##

people to bribe politicians to pass laws to prevent anyone from competing with them

And now were back to unions

########