"Choose Your Pain" Klingon ship (Visual spoilers?)

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

No, that would be the NEW prime timeline, by definition.

No, it's standard practice in film and television.

Heh, I am trying to be sensitive - I don't believe in getting tactless on forums, or showing disrespect for any opinion - so forgive me if my comments are getting a little playful/facetious/jovial, but I just wanna illustrate how humorous this is when taken out of context - this thread is potentially really illustrative of the "post-truth" age we live in isn't it - where people just redefine the parameters of what is true, until whatever they want fits.

Mirror Mirror: "It's exactly in the style of a Klingon ship like the D7 or Vor'cha.... except the neck was removed.... and the warp nacelles.... and the forward bridge.... and the color is different, now that you mention it.... well, Klingon ships were always basically a triangle, weren't they.... it's where they were clearly heading".

Crazy Eddie: "A prime timeline is a universe where everything is the same as it was before.... The Original Series happened.... The Next Generation happened.... where Nero never destroyed Vulcan.... where Kirk doesn't fly around in a 700m long ship with a thousand crew.... oh, but did I mention, you can reboot it, so that specific well-known Klingon ships are replaced by something resembling a Wraith cruiser.... thats just a NEW prime timeline."

Star Trek has never used that comic book stuff before, where the DC and Marvel universe are seemingly rebooted every few years, people come back from the dead every six issues, and things have all the consistency of a post-modern experimental novel, in which the narrator suffers multiple personality disorder, with each chapter being written from their 'perspective' of what really happened. But it looks like some people want to see that style of franchise management adopted by Star Trek.

I guess at the end of the day, the writing of the Klingons is more important than what ship they drive, even if it's maybe the most famous alien ship in TV fiction, but you can't blame people for feeling as they do.

 

[Fateor]

Most would not care. Most also know it does not look old, so would care less what it used to look like. The show is the current show and this is what they have been told a D7 looks like. Most would not care what older shows had it looking like. Its not really relevant.

Slight, well no more like big problem with that.

The lighting and angle was so bad you could barely see the ship in the show. Which means people are going to google it to try to find a better picture of the ship.

And guess what's going to come up when they google "Klingon D7"?

 

[Tuskin38]

I think it looks more like a Jem'hadar battleship

And guess what's going to come up when they google "Klingon D7"?

I'm having deja vu here

 

[cooleddie74]

Or a 24th century Vor'cha-class attack cruiser or Negh'Var-class capital warship.

 

[Tuskin38]

Or a 24th century Vor'cha-class attack cruiser or Negh'Var-class capital warship.

I don't see the resemblance.

 

[cooleddie74]

Eh. The green colors and surface paneling are reminiscent. But the Jem'Hadar ship also works as a comparison.

 

[Longinus]

No, that would be the NEW prime timeline, by definition. Because when you rebooted the universe, the old timeline ceased to exist.

What is this I don't even...

 

[cooleddie74]

I'd sell you a map, but I think the map was rebooted. Now the United States looks like Australia.

 

[ITDUDE]

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Oh man, this is probably the first episode of theirs that I like!

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Star Trek has never used that comic book stuff before...

Star Trek's never done ALOT of tings before. One thing it's never done before is rebooted its established continuity and started over from scratch. If that is indeed what Discovery is doing, then the producers may, in fact, be rebooting the entire prime universe.

This thread is, of course, going to go on another ten pages of me saying "It's probably a reboot, which means lots of things got changed" and you responding "But I'm afraid of change!" at the end of which the only thing that we'll be able to agree on is that Discovery has another episode set to air on Sunday.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I'd sell you a map, but I think the map was rebooted. Now the United States looks like Australia.

That is almost LITERALLY what happened when they rebooted Full Metal Alchemist

 

[GilmourD]

Google "Batmobile" and see what comes up. People get that designs are changed in TV and movies all the time.

But none of those claim to be part of the same continuity.

I think that's the key difference.

 

[GilmourD]

Trek fans apparently don't. There are many different scifi/fantasy IPs that revise the look of their title character/vehicles twice or thrice in a generation with multiple continuities running side by side that otherwise aren't even slightly related. It's a new and scary thing for Star Trek, but it's nothing unusual for science fiction in general.

And for those of you too lazy to hit google:

The "Begins" Batmobile is by far my favorite. But I gotta say, I wasn't even SLIGHTLY confused by the fact that it doesn't look anything like the batmobile from the Michael Keaton version.

But the only two that I see that belong to the same continuity there are the 1992 Animated Batmobile and the 1999 Beyond Batmobile, but they're also two entirely different Batmen (Bruce Wayne in Animated and Terry McGuiness with an old Bruce Wayne in the future in Beyond). Almost everything else are entirely disconnected productions that don't refer to each other.

Star Trek: Discovery is specifically stated to happen between The Cage and Where No Man Has Gone Before in the Prime universe.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

But none of those claim to be part of the same continuity.

I think that's the key difference.

"Prime universe" isn't a label for a specific continuity. At this point, it is LITERALLY just the name for "The version of Star Trek that we actually have rights to." The only thing that makes it distinct is the fact that it doesn't have anything to do with the 2009 film. If those films had never been made, or if they had not made any explanation for the change of events and just left them as a hard reboot, there wouldn't be a term for "prime universe" in the first place, and Discovery would actually just be part of a giant continuity reset.

But the only two that I see that belong to the same continuity there are the 1992 Animated Batmobile and the 1999 Beyond Batmobile, but they're also two entirely different Batmen (Bruce Wayne in Animated and Terry McGuiness with an old Bruce Wayne in the future in Beyond). Almost everything else are entirely disconnected productions that don't refer to each other.

We don't actually know how "disconnected" they really are, though. Consider, for example, that Batman: the Animated Series uses the same theme music and the same basic technical and character designs as the Michael Keaton version and imitates its tone and structure fairly closely. They COULD easily be in the same continuity with relatively little rationalization. Even more interesting is the fact that Batman TAS eventually merged with the Superman animated series and all of a sudden they WERE part of the same continuity.

It's just as likely in this case that Discovery isn't actually a prequel to TOS so much as it is a sequel to Enterprise (which, itself, was effectively a sequel to First Contact, which pulled the mother of all retcons on Star Trek history).

Star Trek: Discovery is specifically stated to happen between The Cage and Where No Man Has Gone Before in the Prime universe...

... both of which are probably going to wind up being rebooted too, at this point. That could be interesting to see.

 

[Tuskin38]

which pulled the mother of all retcons on Star Trek history

But wasn't that a predestination paradox in-universe? Those events were meant to happen.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

But wasn't that a predestination paradox in-universe? Those events were meant to happen.

The events in the PAST? Maybe. I'm actually referring to the presence of the Borg Queen on the cube and the whole notion of assimilating Picard actually being her idea from the start. Going back in time to First Contact, I can accept. But Locutus as Intergalactic Booty Call, that's a BIT harder to swallow.

For that matter, the very EXISTENCE of the Borg Queen, plus the Borg's sudden obsession with assimilating individuals, pretty much unravels everything we ever thought we understood about the Borg. When you also consider the nanoprobe thing with assimilation tubules and the whole "The whole hive will die if we just kill the Queen" resolution pretty much requires us to assume that Best of Both Worlds happened VERY differently in whatever universe First Contact actually takes place. It's also kind of obvious that "I, Borg" and "Descent" didn't happen in the FC timeline either, since Starfleet seems to believe that Picard is so traumatized by his experiences with the Borg that his judgement might be compromised (seems like they completely forgot that time he single handedly faced down Lore's splinter movement... unless that never actually happened in the Ent-E's continuity)

 

[Longinus]

Eddie, your definition of the Prime Universe is completely crazy and utterly useless.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Eddie, your definition of the Prime Universe is completely crazy and utterly useless.

That can't be helped; the fact "prime universe" is even a THING is completely crazy and utterly useless.

Don't blame me just because an absurd thing is absurd.

 

[Longinus]

That can't be helped; the fact "prime universe" is even a THING is completely crazy and utterly useless.

Don't blame me just because an absurd thing is absurd.

People will come up with names for continuities, even if the producers wouldn't. This happens in other franchises too.

But no one here uses the term Prime like you do. If it is a reboot of the Prime, then by definition it is different than the Prime, thus not being the Prime. Please stop using words in useless and confusing manner, words mean things.

 

[cooleddie74]

But wasn't that a predestination paradox in-universe? Those events were meant to happen.

Yes. How this is still a serious debate more than 20 years later escapes me. Whether some fans like it or not Riker and Geordi were always in the Phoenix cockpit with Zefram Cochrane...history for good and pretty obvious reasons just never recorded that fact. There was no "mother of all retcons" or timeline divergence with the events in First Contact.

The Borg were always supposed to have been a background player in the events of the first week of April in 2063. Historians just didn't know about nor record the participation of any extraterrestrials other than the Vulcans.