Whoa, whoa. What? What Klingon ship in TOS was a reused Romulan design?
"Choose Your Pain" Klingon ship (Visual spoilers?)
- Thread starter Cranston
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In TOS - "The Enterprise Incident"
Spock has a line: "Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon design."
The behind the scenes production reason was GR lobbied for and got Paramount to pay for a Klingon ship model (what became known as the classic D-7); and they wanted to see it USED - so they did so for this Romulan story episode by adding that line (and Scotty's: "That's a Klingon ship!" line) to the script.
What became known as the "Klingon Bird of Prey" in STIII:TSFS (1984) WAS actually designed to be a Romulan ships (and it's why it had a Cloaking device too) because in the original script, it was going to be the Romulans (not the Klingons) going after the Genesis Device info, But as usual the studio was worried that because they had shown Klingons in ST:TMP and Klingon Shops again in STII:TWoK - the general audience (not die hard Star Trek fans) might be confused by introducing Romulans into a new film - so teh protagonists became Klingon, but they saw no reason to change the ship design because one alien ship is like another and it was a new model anyway.
I know the history of the ship being in "The Enterprise Incident", as well as the plan to have Roumlans in TSFS.
The post said that the Klingons hadn't had a style until TNG/DS9, and used reused Romulan designs.
The post said that the Klingons hadn't had a style until TNG/DS9, and used reused Romulan designs.
They never said it wasn't a reboot. Just that it takes place in the prime universe. The fact that they would even have to specify this just goes to show how incredibly weird and annoying Star Trek continuity really is. What other franchise has to have multiple canon timelines just to avoid rebooting itself? (Well, Macross actually did this multiple times, but this was mainly because of copyright problems).
For the same reason the vastly redesigned starship that Kirk commands in Star Trek (2009) was called "Enterprise."
Or hell, for the same reason every version of Spiderman is named "Peter Parker" even after having rebooted the film franchise three times in a decade. They don't pretend Toby McGuire's spiderman is still running around somewhere and all the shit we see in "Homecoming" is actually some dude called the Scarlet Spider.
That's how reboots work. You take something old, you change the look, change the background, recast it as something new.
It doesn't. It's an internal thing: "This is the new D7 design."
Considering the Klingons in this series are already openly using cloaking devices -- and went out of their way to make sure Starfleet SAW them using one -- it's looking more and more likely that the reboot is far more than just visual.
If it is a reboot then it by any reasonable definition is not the Prime Universe.
Casual fans know 'Enterprise' and 'Peter Parker', they don't know 'D7'.
And you still keep describing what's happening instead of answering my question which was what was gained by doing this.
Agreed. Thus they lied.
No and no.
A single ship is using the cloak, and it was never stated when the Klingons started using them.
No one said it should look like it is filmed in 1966. I wish people would quit misrepresenting what our side of the discussion is. People on this side of the discussion wanted something modern that looks like it connects with the designs of the original.
I hate that it's a thing, now, that people can dispute a FACT by saying "but that's my opinion". Facts are facts, despite whatever anybody says.
Seriously, this. Even though I didn't like the outside of NX-01, the internals looked like they fit the time.
I don't understand why they couldn't take the basic bones of what they did before and modernize them for 4K TV so you can at least say "OK, that makes sense."
There's so much visually off with this show that I'm wondering what BS they're gonna throw at us to explain it, if they every do, because they're SO ADAMANT that this is the original prime universe and that this is how it was, even though we all know it isn't.
Yep, I stand corrected there. I was misrecalling it, it has been a long time since I watched TOS and was recalling the SFS Bird of prey and so misrecalled the TOs swap the same way, not the other way around.
Most would not care. Most also know it does not look old, so would care less what it used to look like. The show is the current show and this is what they have been told a D7 looks like. Most would not care what older shows had it looking like. Its not really relevant.
"Our side"? There has been, since the moment after Discovery was announced as a prequel, a contingent of fans claimed it should look like the 1960's. It is not a misrepresentation to state that. So if you're going to claim speakership for "a side" you need to be specific as to which faction you belong.
TBH, I try avoid all that mess by speaking only for myself and only answering criticisms to the things I say. Like so: why trust the classification by the computer when the pilot already demonstrated the system isnt infallible. How often do they even update the IFF system on a shuttle?
That's a question I'm asking. Tear my statement apart as you will.
If I were to point out that there was no 1992 Impala, would I be missing the point?
Google "Batmobile" and see what comes up. People get that designs are changed in TV and movies all the time.
It is easier when it is clearly a new take on something. Like basically any new superhero movie with a new actor, director and producer (and sometimes even studio). Its expected it will be different each time there is a new Batman that some things will be quite different because its been like that even in the comics for decades. Yet still Batman has a clear bat motif going on in most of his stuff.
Star Trek doesn't have that particularly without an excuse given by the film or series itself. Kirk and Spock were recast in 2009, but it was made clear that it was an alternate timeline and some serious things changed since the day Kirk was born...so changes were acceptable (more or less). Discovery hasn't yet recast (or even shown) Kirk and Spock, nor any of the main cast of any of the other Star Trek shows. They've recast Sarek, but Mark Lenard is quite dead, as is Jane Wyatt for Amanda. It doesn't take place on the USS Enterprise, so they have not redesigned that (yet). The slate was, mostly clear as the time period is the 2250s, and they so have some things that are similar in style and color to things that would be normal in Star Trek set in the 2260s. Otherwise changes have been because time has passed in the series. USS Enterprise gets a refit and its been a few years when TMP happens. TNG takes place almost a hundred years after the Five Year Mission. ENT takes place over a hundred years before the Five Year Mission. The largest changes were makeup related, and details related, which were passed off as "bigger budget" and generally accepted on that basis, with hints of the passage of time, or multiple sub-species of said races in story resulting in the changes (and for the Klingons, resulting in the virus and cure result some decades later). However, during the last 50 years, until Discovery, some things did not change when certain eras were revisited. If a set looked like it did in 1968 on Star Trek, than it still would look more or less like that because time hasn't changed inside the universe to alter the appearance of something seen in 2268 for anyone else seeing something from 2268 again. That's just how it looks and that was accepted all the way through to the end of Enterprise in 2005, and elements of Enterprise made it into the new films. Name dropping have happened in Discovery, and some of the visuals still potentially link into the era. The big, "but" is the Klingons. Now the Klingons have had their appearance changed before for a larger budget, but there shouldn't have been a reason so do that again, just because of the budget. That seems like a waste of money verses something that worked for 20 years post-TMP and to the end of Enterprise with modifications and refinements. Plus the actors could work with that makeup effectively. Add to this the Klingon starships are all sorts of random doesn't leave a good taste in one's mouth. So far the only logically reason I've heard as a rumor for the heavy makeup was to potentally keep the identity of a future Klingon spy a secret before they show up without the Klingon makeup (like if they introduced Arne Darvin as a Klingon cultist, then he shows up later as a Federation official, with the new makeup you won't easily be able to tell they were the same person because the actor is so covered up and sounds different wit their teeth and usually speaking in stilted Klingon.).
Now things might still fall into place somehow. The more traditional Klingons, could appear later one, or the Klingon makeup will get less busy over time. The Klingon starships might become less ornate and more industrial and functional for the war effort.
Star Trek doesn't have that particularly without an excuse given by the film or series itself. Kirk and Spock were recast in 2009, but it was made clear that it was an alternate timeline and some serious things changed since the day Kirk was born...so changes were acceptable (more or less). Discovery hasn't yet recast (or even shown) Kirk and Spock, nor any of the main cast of any of the other Star Trek shows. They've recast Sarek, but Mark Lenard is quite dead, as is Jane Wyatt for Amanda. It doesn't take place on the USS Enterprise, so they have not redesigned that (yet). The slate was, mostly clear as the time period is the 2250s, and they so have some things that are similar in style and color to things that would be normal in Star Trek set in the 2260s. Otherwise changes have been because time has passed in the series. USS Enterprise gets a refit and its been a few years when TMP happens. TNG takes place almost a hundred years after the Five Year Mission. ENT takes place over a hundred years before the Five Year Mission. The largest changes were makeup related, and details related, which were passed off as "bigger budget" and generally accepted on that basis, with hints of the passage of time, or multiple sub-species of said races in story resulting in the changes (and for the Klingons, resulting in the virus and cure result some decades later). However, during the last 50 years, until Discovery, some things did not change when certain eras were revisited. If a set looked like it did in 1968 on Star Trek, than it still would look more or less like that because time hasn't changed inside the universe to alter the appearance of something seen in 2268 for anyone else seeing something from 2268 again. That's just how it looks and that was accepted all the way through to the end of Enterprise in 2005, and elements of Enterprise made it into the new films. Name dropping have happened in Discovery, and some of the visuals still potentially link into the era. The big, "but" is the Klingons. Now the Klingons have had their appearance changed before for a larger budget, but there shouldn't have been a reason so do that again, just because of the budget. That seems like a waste of money verses something that worked for 20 years post-TMP and to the end of Enterprise with modifications and refinements. Plus the actors could work with that makeup effectively. Add to this the Klingon starships are all sorts of random doesn't leave a good taste in one's mouth. So far the only logically reason I've heard as a rumor for the heavy makeup was to potentally keep the identity of a future Klingon spy a secret before they show up without the Klingon makeup (like if they introduced Arne Darvin as a Klingon cultist, then he shows up later as a Federation official, with the new makeup you won't easily be able to tell they were the same person because the actor is so covered up and sounds different wit their teeth and usually speaking in stilted Klingon.).
Now things might still fall into place somehow. The more traditional Klingons, could appear later one, or the Klingon makeup will get less busy over time. The Klingon starships might become less ornate and more industrial and functional for the war effort.
