Lorca is a coward and murderer, how come he's a Starfleet Captain still??

[Succubint]

Just on this point about ascribing things to a character. As it has been put on our screens that Lorca has been given the reputation and did not deny it, do we go by believing he killed his crew and saved himself?

I see shades of Burnham here. She also accepted a terrible reputation and the blame (both internally and externally) for some things she did and some things she didn't necessarily do.

I think it rings absolutely true that he blew up his ship. There's nothing to show yet, though, how and why he survived that explosion. It could easily be a case of being prevented from going down with his ship (for any number of reasons) but still blaming himself. Or, it could be that he scrambled to escape, knocking all other crewman out of the way.

We just don't know yet. I can assume, however, which you would prefer to assume.

The interesting thing, of course is who first introduces this character info in the show: Harry Mudd. For self-serving reasons, sow create division with Tyler. It was interesting that Lorca owned it and even said flat out that he blew the ship up.

Obviously there is more to the story and hopefully we will find out what it is. The fact that he essentially tortures himself everyday with eyeball injections when he doesn't have to, is a big tell that there's more going on psychologically.

 

[ralfy]

Most shows have multiple plots and subplots running. Even a by the numbers cop show like Hawaii 5-0 has subplots running under the the plot of the week.

Yes, but not 10+ subplots introduced in only five episodes.

 

[Feron]

...Obviously there is more to the story and hopefully we will find out what it is. The fact that he essentially tortures himself everyday with eyeball injections when he doesn't have to, is a big tell that there's more going on psychologically.

Exactly. I have seen absolutely nothing that makes Lorca look like a coward, and as you note the fact that he tortures himself on a daily basis in relation to the loss of his crew says volumes. If he were as horrible as his detractors here make him out to be, he wouldn't care about that, he would just get his eyes fixed and "move on".

It is rather telling that many of the same people who condemn Lorca, who is clearly deeply hurt about the loss of his crew, are in complete defense of Harry Mudd, who openly betrayed people to torture and death and openly stated that he was proud and happy to do so because all Harry Mudd cares about is himself.

 

[Longinus]

Mudd is not a Starfleet captain.

 

[Feron]

Mudd is not a Starfleet captain.

No, but he seems to be given a pass by the same folks heaping hate on Lorca.

I've found the bulk of Lorca's actions to be completely reasonable, and in some cases arguably merciful. He could have killed L'Rell, and he did not do so. He chose not to do so. Even though she had tortured him viciously, he merely incapacitated her temporarily and got Tyler to safety.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

No, but he seems to be given a pass by the same folks heaping hate on Lorca.

I've found the bulk of Lorca's actions to be completely reasonable, and in some cases arguably merciful. He could have killed L'Rell, and he did not do so. He chose not to do so. Even though she had tortured him viciously, he merely incapacitated her temporarily and got Tyler to safety.

There is a lot of moral equivalence going on at the moment. People are carrying on like we've never seen a Starfleet officer make a decision like this before.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yes, but not 10+ subplots introduced in only five episodes.

I don't think things like the telescope count as "subplots".

 

[Refuge]

Mudd is not a Starfleet captain.

Indeed, and it is the representation of Starfleet and Lorca that is questionable in terms of mighty Federation values. There is a war because of varying agendas and 'values'.

I'm going by what came out of the horse's ar.. I mean mouth. Lorca confessed to killing his crew and he is being judged on it. He reeks of cowardice, even the way he left Mudd behind.

 

[Nerys Myk]

He reeks of cowardice, even the way he left Mudd behind.

Exactly why should he save Mudd? The man conspired against him. Was immune to the tortures given to the other prisoners. And is pretty much a traitor to the Federation. Not seeing the advantage of taking him along in an already risky situation.

 

[Refuge]

Exactly why should he save Mudd? The man conspired against him. Was immune to the tortures given to the other prisoners. And is pretty much a traitor to the Federation. Not seeing the advantage of taking him along in an already risky situation.

Because he should be better than Mudd, however he is not.

 

[Feron]

Because he should be better than Mudd, however he is not.

How many people did Lorca tell the Klingons to torture instead of himself?

 

[Refuge]

How many people did Lorca tell the Klingons to torture instead of himself?

Mudd for one. Are we expecting a Starfleet Captain to adjust his standards to equate those of Mudd?

 

[Ithekro]

Considering that Mudd would likely be a liability in the escape, there isn't a point in taking him if you actually intend to escape. Take him and you will either be slowed down and captured. Found out and killed, or betrayed and killed. Few to none of those options result in the three of them escaping.

 

[Refuge]

Considering that Mudd would likely be a liability in the escape, there isn't a point in taking him if you actually intend to escape. Take him and you will either be slowed down and captured. Found out and killed, or betrayed and killed. Few to none of those options result in the three of them escaping.

Good Lord what kind of useless weak arsed Captain is Lorca? He has to kill a crew under his command because he's left them vulnerable to capture? Now he can't cope with leaving the 'door' open so a scoundrel like Mudd can escape? Did I watch the same episode? Lorca made a deliberate vindictive choice to leave Mudd behind.

 

[Ithekro]

Kirk would leave him with his captors, just like he left Mudd with the androids....and even more punishment.

 

[Feron]

Mudd for one. Are we expecting a Starfleet Captain to adjust his standards to equate those of Mudd?

I must have missed the part where Lorca told the Klingons to torture Mudd. They never tortured him before. Why do you believe that they would do so now?

 

[Agony_Boothb]

It's not even the first time we've seen a starfleet officer do something like this either

 

[Feron]

It's not even the first time we've seen a starfleet officer do something like this either

Exactly. Was it a "war crime" for Kirk to leave Mudd trapped on a planet full of robot Stellas?

 

[Refuge]

Exactly. Was it a "war crime" for Kirk to leave Mudd trapped on a planet full of robot Stellas?

I missed that part of Discovery with Kirk in it?

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I missed that part of Discovery with Kirk in it?

In most discussions you make the argument that characters don't behave like starfleet officers. What do you use to make that assessment, is it starfleet officers that you have seen in other series?