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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x05 - "Choose Your Pain"

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Plus it means the Tardigrade was able to board the ship while it's warp field, deflector and maybe low levels shields were up creating a barrier to getting in. Yet could *not* leave when all those fields failed and went away?

Uhh....
The nature of the spores allows the traveler to arrive at any point in space, operating almost 4th dimensionally (or above). Any amount of shielding in the 3 dimensions wouldn't have stopped it from appearing if it was already traveling on its own spore-actuated journey from somewhere else. Once it was "trapped" on the Glenn in conventional 3 dimensional space, with no more access to the spores that got it there, or a new batch of compatible spores, it couldn't leave.
 
Why is the tardigrade unable to directly travel the mycelial network until it is off of the ship?

Because there are, like, rules, on how a supersized micro-organism is able to fly faster-than-light through the universe on a galaxy spanning network of subspace roots from a human-DNA-compatible space shroom, man!

Just, like, open up your mind, man!
 
If folks watch the detailed pre-jump sequence that they follow prior to the failed jump that placed them near a star, Lorca clearly orders shields down. The TG boarded the Glenn during a jump - i.e. shields were down.
 
The nature of the spores allows the traveler to arrive at any point in space, operating almost 4th dimensionally (or above). Any amount of shielding in the 3 dimensions wouldn't have stopped it from appearing if it was already traveling on its own spore-actuated journey from somewhere else. Once it was "trapped" on the Glenn in conventional 3 dimensional space, with no more access to the spores that got it there, or a new batch of compatible spores, it couldn't leave.

I appreciate the thought that went into this, but at this point one has to concede Ed's point...

Because Reasons.
 
A considered opinion that she does a far better job of articulating than any Discovery fans have managed in defense of the show's many failings...

I don't think that is true at all. Many good counter arguments have be posited for most of what Katherine rages about. If you don't see them as compelling I think that is just your current perspective or negative impression of Discovery shading the discussion. (This probably happens in reverse for me too, but I think I am willing to grant some arguments about elements of Discovery that haven't been great.)

I believe it is, yes. :)

Yeah, i09 jumped the shark years ago.
Yeah, i think it was when they were bought/merged with gizmodo. Before that, they had tons of good stuff I wanted to read every day. Now, not so much - though their recent added focus on hardcore sciences (astrophysics, theoretical physics, etc.) has been really nice.

I would cooperate with the Klingons too if the alternative was to be tortured by them. For fuck's sake, he is a civilian and a Federation citizen, It was Lorca's duty as a Starfleet officer to save him!

Do we know he is a Fed citizen though? He has committed crimes against the Federation and it's citizens, but I don't think we even know what planet he was originally from let alone where he calls home now. And i would argue that in a time of war, Lorca is under no obligation (legal, ethical or otherwise) to bring along a traitor/collaborator with him on an escape mission. Despite what some have said, that definitely would endanger Lorca, Tyler, and the overall war effort.

The nature of the spores allows the traveler to arrive at any point in space, operating almost 4th dimensionally (or above). Any amount of shielding in the 3 dimensions wouldn't have stopped it from appearing if it was already traveling on its own spore-actuated journey from somewhere else. Once it was "trapped" on the Glenn in conventional 3 dimensional space, with no more access to the spores that got it there, or a new batch of compatible spores, it couldn't leave.
We don't know what kind of shielding was being implemented but I would say that it apparently did extend into the dimensions through which the Tardigrade could travel, because while the shielding was on, it did prevent it from escaping. It probably traveled to the Glenn at sometime when shields were down, then was trapped their later. If I remember my next gen technical manual (whose applicability to this situation is arguably limited) Starfleet shields warp space itself to turn back attacks whether they are physical objects or energy beams, etc., so regular shields might just do it too. The Glenn's crew just added "always on" shields around engineering so that even if the main shields were down, the Tardigrade could not escape. Basically, the Tardigrade either was always behind a shield, or lacked access to enough spores to make the jump. To argue that the writers didn't plan for this would ignore that the writers invented the extra shielding around the Glenn's engineering section and pointed it out first thing, even though it is otherwise totally unnecessary to the episode. There might be a scene where there could be an exception to the always shielded/lack of spores rules but if so it should just be reasonably treated as a simple error while the overall implementation is still consistent.
 
The nature of the spores allows the traveler to arrive at any point in space, operating almost 4th dimensionally (or above). Any amount of shielding in the 3 dimensions wouldn't have stopped it from appearing if it was already traveling on its own spore-actuated journey from somewhere else. Once it was "trapped" on the Glenn in conventional 3 dimensional space, with no more access to the spores that got it there, or a new batch of compatible spores, it couldn't leave.

So it can come and go when it wants, at any time, not bound by spatial laws. So nothing can hold it, got it.
 
The nature of the spores allows the traveler to arrive at any point in space, operating almost 4th dimensionally (or above). Any amount of shielding in the 3 dimensions wouldn't have stopped it from appearing if it was already traveling on its own spore-actuated journey from somewhere else. Once it was "trapped" on the Glenn in conventional 3 dimensional space, with no more access to the spores that got it there, or a new batch of compatible spores, it couldn't leave.

That doesn’t really make sense, since we saw Burnham feed it spores several times. Without the harness.

There was nothing to stop him from just taking off.
 
Speaking of the Tardigrade: how was it able to rehydrate in the vacuum of space? I do think the writers did not think that through.
 
So it can come and go when it wants, at any time, not bound by spatial laws. So nothing can hold it, got it.
That doesn’t really make sense, since we saw Burnham feed it spores several times. Without the harness.

There was nothing to stop him from just taking off.
Not quite - every time there were spores present on either the Glenn or the Discovery, it was restrained somehow, either by the imprisoning force field, or the grapples (and redirecting its traveling capabilities through the ships' navigational systems), or the navigational deflectors that were always on. Once it popped out of Spore Space down into 3-D space on the Glenn from wherever it originated, it was trapped by the fore-mentioned technical means. The Spore Space pathway was closed at that point and it seemed to be a one-way portal. It probably arrived in the Glenn in the first place because it detected the presence of the spores during their experiments and brief jumps into S-Space nearby. It probably could have just as easily wound up on the Discovery by chance for the same reason. It didn't have the two conditions of existing in unrestricted space, plus supporting spore presence until the end of that episode, when Burnham and Tilly sent them out the airlock. The spores regenerated the creature and opened the pathway and >poof<. The rest is history. Makes perfect sense, actually, if you put all the pieces together in logical order.

Now I DO agree that they did a piss-poor job of depicting these technical conditions. There can be, admittedly, the argument that much of what I say is a stretch based on available facts (especially the bit I introduced about the navigational deflectors to fill that one hole) but other than that - and like I said, that tech DOES exist on starships, just not mentioned on-screen in this context - it all works.
Speaking of the Tardigrade: how was it able to rehydrate in the vacuum of space? I do think the writers did not think that through.
It was demonstrated that the tardigrade and spores exhibit a symbiotic relationship. Symbiosis, by definition, allows the host and tag-alongs to support one another. The spores may benefit from the host being alive and healthy, so they provide that state by (albeit magically) re-hydrating the host. Again, a piss-poor way of demonstrating the concept, but fits the available facts by understanding how symbiotic relationships work IRL.
 
And discussing them.

maybe the writers and producers thought to avoid it, maybe it isn't on purpose, but the "tech speak" was so much cooler even on ENT.

My personal opinion.
I agree with this. I think they honestly tried to avoid bogging down the story and its pacing with technobabble. Unfortunately, they introduced so many high-concept technologies in this whole Spore Drive thing that they almost painted themselves into a corner with it, in a way requiring further technobabble exposition (which never came) just to tell the viewers what's actually going on! All the pieces are there, but some of the glue is missing. :lol:
 
That's a bit harsh and hyperbolic. Incomplete? Definitely. Lazy, incoherent and incompetent? Don't think so. Some of the concepts they're are exploring are anything but and they couldn't have gotten this far by being incompetent.

There's also the editing staff that may have actually clipped other dialog necessary for painting a clearer picture. Maybe someone thought the exposition was too wordy and tried to pair it down some. Happens all the time and we'll never know until the Blu-Rays come out with the outtakes, if ever.
 
...Once it popped out of Spore Space down into 3-D space on the Glenn from wherever it originated, it was trapped by the fore-mentioned technical means. The Spore Space pathway was closed at that point and it seemed to be a one-way portal...

It was demonstrated that the tardigrade and spores exhibit a symbiotic relationship. Symbiosis, by definition, allows the host and tag-alongs to support one another. The spores may benefit from the host being alive and healthy, so they provide that state by (albeit magically) re-hydrating the host. Again, a piss-poor way of demonstrating the concept, but fits the available facts by understanding how symbiotic relationships work IRL.

I don't think we even have to rely on any kind of one-way travel/portal. A simpler solution is that the Tardigrade traveled to the Glenn when shields were down, seeking out spores. Later, after it was discovered and the Glenn's crew figured out some of its connection to the spores, they kept the shields up and put up the special engineering shields to keep it on the Glenn while they did research. Simple.

I do really agree with the symbiosis part, where the spores allow Ripper to rejuvenate - it makes sense for these species as depicted. It is how Ripper gets his basic sustenance, for example, while in the containment cell. I wonder what exactly the Ripper provides to the spores: maybe the Tardigrades provide the "connection/location information" in their brains that the base fungi can't store - or maybe their physical transits allow for some kind of interbreeding (or whatever fungi do) passing DNA around from physical location to physical location. Any thoughts?

Lazy, incoherent, incompetant writing as usual. Pass.

Not at all. The exact details of the Tardigrade's connection to the spores, how it transits the mycelium space, what contains it, are 99% not germane to any of the stories being told. What is important is how we treat the Tardigrade, how we understand it is a creature that we shouldn't exploit, how his exploitation impacts the other plot lines, and what our characters learn from the experience when they let him go. None of that required extensive explanation of exactly how to trap a Tardigrade or how the symbiosis works. Yeah, a couple scenes could be dedicated to explaining all these details, but they would slow the episodes down, would be largely technobable, and wouldn't add to the characters or the plot. If they had been included, people would just be complaining that these things were already understood, didn't need to take up valuable time, and were dumb technobable.

That's a bit harsh and hyperbolic. Incomplete? Definitely. Lazy, incoherent and incompetent? Don't think so. Some of the concepts they're are exploring are anything but and they couldn't have gotten this far by being incompetent.

There's also the editing staff that may have actually clipped other dialog necessary for painting a clearer picture. Maybe someone thought the exposition was too wordy and tried to pair it down some. Happens all the time and we'll never know until the Blu-Rays come out with the outtakes, if ever.

Agreed.
 
grapples - are those the nipple clamps?
Heh...yes, sorry. Those. :) I honestly always thought they were grapples/clamps that held the tardigrade in place with two of its many appendages. I guess I rate a little higher on the purity test scale than others here. :D
 
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