Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x05 - "Choose Your Pain"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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That thing was a Yugo with bright green racing stripes and at least a Yugo looks like a car.
Well, I re-watched it tonight - and another reason I think Lorca knows, or at least suspects is: He let Tyler pilot the Klingon Raider and was more watching Tyler and his handling of the controls - because if Tyler is a Klingon, Lorca realizes Tyler would handle the Raider controls more expertly/intuitively.
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Of course Lorca knows.
I'm even betting he let himself get captured.
I'm even betting he let himself get captured.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of this.
What's your theory?
Lorca sent Mudd in first, or Mudd got a message out, after being legitimately captured.
I noticed that at no point did Lorca actually identify himself to Mudd but then Mudd seems to know exactly who he is later on when giving the spiel about the Buran. I figured Lorca just said his name to mudd offscreen or something but maybe that was a clue to the audience that they actually know each other.
Hmmm this just raises more questions for me to rack my brain over
Hmmm this just raises more questions for me to rack my brain over
I love him. He's so cranky and reluctant... But Anthony Rapp's facial expression in the "fucking cool" moment was brilliant.
You voted "remain", didn't you?
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I hadn't actually considered this until you said, but it's starting to make some kind of sense.
Perhaps he is aware of some kind of Klingon advancement (possibly the mind sifter, or something related to it), and was intentionally over using the spore drive to draw attention to the Discovery, and thereby himself...
If we want to bring the mind sifter into this... Then some to most of Lorca's experience was a sculpted fantasy, and we can't be sure where the line is between reality and dream is. if L'Rell wasn't shot, then she either has to wear make up to pretend she has a scar/wound, or she gives herself an identical wound so that Lorca doesn't twig, because she is committed to he character.
Harry Mudd could have been an NPC, and we have yet to meet the true Mudd.
Harry Mudd could have been an NPC, and we have yet to meet the true Mudd.
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I really don't want this theory to be true, because I didn't think of it! I still think Voq is too much a dumbass to pull this stunt off.
Someone suggested that Lorca may have let himself be captured. My question is why? To be interrogated by a beta-version Duras sister and pick up a spy? He got no info and a possible liability in Tyler.
Regardless, I took Tyler at face value, but am now not quite sure. The imprisonment plot was a bit shallow, but Lorca pulling the long con could redeem it.
Someone suggested that Lorca may have let himself be captured. My question is why? To be interrogated by a beta-version Duras sister and pick up a spy? He got no info and a possible liability in Tyler.
Regardless, I took Tyler at face value, but am now not quite sure. The imprisonment plot was a bit shallow, but Lorca pulling the long con could redeem it.
G
Gonzo
Guest
It has been heavily signposted, that could mean he is a red herring though, I think the spy could already be onboard, how else could they so accurately grab Lorca.
I finally got around to watching this and I thought it was the best episode yet. It was I thought the best paced episode.
What I didn't like was the Klingon woman. I had no idea it was the one from previous episodes until I watched trekyards review. It just seemed odd to me.
Seeing Mud! Its been a long long time since watching that character. Almost 50 years? Wow.
What I didn't like was the Klingon woman. I had no idea it was the one from previous episodes until I watched trekyards review. It just seemed odd to me.
Seeing Mud! Its been a long long time since watching that character. Almost 50 years? Wow.
G
Gonzo
Guest
I am liking Saru and Stamets a lot more after this weeks episode.
Much better delivery and less forced dialogue.
The complete lack of Klingon dialogue helped a lot though.
Much better delivery and less forced dialogue.
The complete lack of Klingon dialogue helped a lot though.
How far back does the spying go? Logically T'Kuvma needed eyes on the Shenzou, to make sure it turned up on the right day that he could gather the Houses in minutes... And now his entire ship is a laboratory to find the spy, that might be Michael, so there was really no point in testing the other survivors, if Michael was off sunbathing on a penal colony, and guilty.
I thought we were saying that Ash Tyler is the spy as well as Voq, which means that Lorca's play is to feed Ash disinformation, and eventually be intentionally lead into a trap which he has the foresight to anticipate and counter taking down the empire as they expect total victory.
I thought we were saying that Ash Tyler is the spy as well as Voq, which means that Lorca's play is to feed Ash disinformation, and eventually be intentionally lead into a trap which he has the foresight to anticipate and counter taking down the empire as they expect total victory.
I just re-watched the prison scenes (and now will be late for work), and I can see this going either way. In favor of the theory is Tyler's composure after seven months with the Klingons, his under-whelmed response at Lorca's confession, and that his head was slammed against a pipe (with a sickeningly loud CLANK) and he got right back up.
Against the theory is it's only been three weeks since the last episode, which is too soon for him to properly train to pass as human. Also, he showed little concern for M'Rell when Lorca turned her into Two-Face. If their fight was staged Then they really committed to their parts!
If it's Voq, he was brainwashed (and given a grade school education). If not, Tyler has been brainwashed as a sleeper-agent, or has come to sympathize with the enemy ("I think I'm coming down with Stockholm Syndrome, sexy.").
One more curious bit. Mudd throws T'Kuvma's rationale for the war back in Lorca's face. Perhaps Mudd is in on this on a much deeper level. If so, there is no excuse for him being free during TOS.
Against the theory is it's only been three weeks since the last episode, which is too soon for him to properly train to pass as human. Also, he showed little concern for M'Rell when Lorca turned her into Two-Face. If their fight was staged Then they really committed to their parts!
If it's Voq, he was brainwashed (and given a grade school education). If not, Tyler has been brainwashed as a sleeper-agent, or has come to sympathize with the enemy ("I think I'm coming down with Stockholm Syndrome, sexy.").
One more curious bit. Mudd throws T'Kuvma's rationale for the war back in Lorca's face. Perhaps Mudd is in on this on a much deeper level. If so, there is no excuse for him being free during TOS.
I think many people fail to see things from the characters point of view as well. We as the audience has a gods eye view.
Voq and L'Rell did spend time on the Shenzou so I suppose that could've enabled them some time to come up with a plan, change his appearance if necessary, and learn English - yeah.. Find out about Lorca and Discovery, create a prison scenario, plant someone who shares a cell with Mudd who is possibly a spy for the Federation. Lorca gets captured because he wants to and there's this perfectly timed double cross.
The Klingon spy finds out about the spore drive but is given corrupted information. If the spy is (or working for) Voq who is an outcast, he has to ingratiate himself back with the rest of the Klingons who use the faux technology to devastating affect, apart from the fortunate twist that they all end up with hair??
This is coming together.. I think.
The Klingon spy finds out about the spore drive but is given corrupted information. If the spy is (or working for) Voq who is an outcast, he has to ingratiate himself back with the rest of the Klingons who use the faux technology to devastating affect, apart from the fortunate twist that they all end up with hair??
This is coming together.. I think.
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