Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x05 - "Choose Your Pain"

[CorporalClegg]

I think they went chronologically.

By "Starfleet's most prominent ship line" I was of course referring to the Enterprise:

Archer, April, Pike, Kirk, Spock, Harriman,

Then they do finally get a woman and her tenure was cut short when she dies heroically in an event that - quite literally - changed the course of history forever.

So they go right back to a old, balding white dude.

 

[Nyotarules]

Garth probably didn't become famous until the end of this war.

If it was a list of great firs officers, somehow George Kirk would be on that list.

Captain Tilly will have her own Constitution-class starship by the late 2260s due to all the previous war's attrition on the experienced command officers pool. She'll be on one of those ships at the M5 computer disaster.

For what reason?

 

[Charles Phipps]

I doubt Georgiou was ever captain of the Enterprise, though it's possible she was the Captain of the NX-1 Enterprise's successor before the Constitution class.

For what reason?

In the Prime Timeline, he chooses to live a normal life in Iowa (ending up destroying his marriage) rather than go down heroically as the legendary Kelvin Captain.

Kind of ironic.

 

[donners22]

I'm sure everything has already been covered, so I'll just throw in quick thoughts:

- Didn't recognise the Klingon woman at all. I'm bad with faces generally, but my partner insisted we hadn't seen her before either.

- Glad to see characters actually smiling for once!

- Those who still insist that Discovery doesn't cover ethical or philosophical issues can't have watched this episode very closely.

- The computer is a magic mirror now?

- Poor Stewart! I think Mudd is pretty accurate with his assessment of Lorca. Lorca certainly earned a couple of enemies in a short space of time...

- I am now sold on the Voq theory.

- Loving this show.

 

[Cake]

Now as for the scene where he beats up L'Rell, remember that Lorca is right around the corner. It could easily have been an act to help sell his role.

Of course it was. Everything was a setup to make Lorca trust and like him, so that Lorca will let him stay on the Discovery. Voq's and L'Rell's plans obviously include stealing information about Discovery's jump technology.

 

[SJA]

Great ep! Not sure about the leaving Mudd thing? Loved Stamets in this! Glad to see they let the creature go! Bit pissed off about Tyler's accent ha! All this talk of 'diversity' but everyone in Starfleet and on the Discovery is seemingly American! (Before anyone gets offended I like Americans and lived in Tennessee for a year!) Not sure why they keep casting Brits and then have them doing generic Yank accents? Probably badly! Not sure I buy Lorca's explanation as to why he survived his last commands explosion...Lorca is a Klingon!?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I doubt Georgiou was ever captain of the Enterprise, though it's possible she was the Captain of the NX-1 Enterprise's successor before the Constitution class.

In the prime timeline, there was no such ship. After the retirement of the NX-01, the next Enterprise was the NCC-1701 as seen in TOS.

It's the Kelvin timeline (which DSC is not a part of) that introduces a new Enterprise which fits between the NX-01 and NCC-1701.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I doubt Georgiou was ever captain of the Enterprise, .

Of course not.

 

[Nyotarules]

Oh, I totally agree and it seems like such an unnecessary adjustment on a show like Trek. People love Isaacs' natural voice and would certainly not object with Tyler. I doubt the character of Lorca is going to somehow have an important plot about being born in Georgia.

Starfleet is meant to be a organisation with human origins , United Earth human originas, at the moment it still comes across as NASA/US armed forces in space with alien friends.

 

[Gonzo]

Eh... Star Trek III plus AbramVerse Trek already popped that cherry with the Klingon "Bird of Prey" and "Warbirds" years ago. The generous back-and-forth in nomenclature between those two fleets' ships during that time has always been a bit troublesome for me. Yeah, they shared tech back in TOS and all, but the Klingons have never revered birds in the same way that Romulans did. If anything, they should be called "Targs of Prey". Fuck birds. This new show makes it worse by showing us fighter craft that look like peacocks! FFS! I really do like this show but some of the design choices, particularly with the Klingons just baffle me, TBH.

I always thought that the Klingons favoured an avian design ethos from the start although the D7 wasn't as raptor like as the actual Bird of Prey that came later, the Romulans seemed to start showing avian influences in TOS as well with the Nuclear powered Bird of Prey but it was junk, by the 24th century they had more than caught up with the D'Deridex Warbirds which was a very nasty surprise when Starfleet finally encountered one.

If I remember correctly it went like this.

Klingons - D7 no cloak until 2269 or so (TOS) >> K'tinga D7 and B'rel/K'Vort Bird of Prey (Early Films) >> Vor'cha (TNG) >> Negh'Var (DS9)

Romulans - Nuclear Bird of Prey with cloak (early TOS) >> D7 (mid/late TOS) >> D'Deridex Warbird (TNG)

All of the above ships are prime timeline based from the mid 2260's (TOS) onwards, which means during the mid 2250's the best the Romulans can have is the Nuclear Bird of Prey with cloak as seen for the first time in TOS, at least until they barter/steal/share designs and tech from the Klingons as they already have the D7 as shown in the latest episode.

T'Kuvma already has the cloaking technology so he must have gotten it from somewhere, unless its the Klingons who developed it first not the Romulans as we saw but that doesn't work as the Klingon D7's seen in TOS didn't have cloaking devices until the very late 2260's.

So by all rights the Klingons shouldn't be able to cloak yet, not until the late 2260's when they share tech with the Romulans who get the D7 ships and the Klingons get the cloak.

That escalated quickly didn't it.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Starfleet is meant to be a organisation with human origins , United Earth human originas, at the moment it still comes across as NASA/US armed forces in space with alien friends.

Which, in reality, is all it ever is (and should be).

The pretense of what Starfleet is (or is supposed to be) actually pretty fucking nefarious. And no self-respecting planetary government would ever capitulate to terms that required their own standing navy to be absorbed into one hedquarted on a different planet.

 

[Michael]

“It was flawless and the best episode yet.”

Late to the game again, but yeah, I really enjoyed the episode as well. Gave this 9/10.

I like Sonequa Martin-Green and a lot but the writers are giving her a lot of bad material.

I agree, they are giving her weird dialog in some instances. Overall the dialog has improved from the premiere episodes, but some lines still just come across very unnatural and cringe-worthy.

Always a mistake to make one character to represent a Star Trek series, the older Track series didn't have that.

If the older “Tracks” didn't have it, how can it “always be a mistake”?

Guess Saru didn't rescue the telescope, huh?

Yup, bummer this theory didn't turn out to be true. Loved the idea.

… and the Klingon disruptor effect was a great update on the vaporise setting

Yeah, I didn't expect that. The effect looked awesome.

Oh, and obvious spy is obvious.

I don't know, is it so obvious? Kinda wish I didn't know about the Voq theory, because I'm not sure I really find it that obvious that he's a spy. My wife at least – who doesn't know about the theory – didn't say she suspects Tyler.

I was only born in 82, but I have similar experiences with the film. Since about 15 I've tried to watch it, and still keep feeling... why is this considered so great.

Yeah, the original is pretty slow and boring. First time I tried to watch it a few years ago I fell asleep halfway in. The sequel though is very good, albeit still somewhat slow. But I liked it much more.

Burnham is injecting a conscience into this crew. I can't imagine throwing her out in favor of soulless Lorca.

Yeah, I don't really get the Lorca love myself. He's certainly an interesting kind of character for the show, but I sure wouldn't want him to be the main character.

Interestingly, I felt with the reveal of Lorca's backstory in this episode they were kind of setting up how his arc in the show might conclude. My guess is that he will sacrifice himself for this crew at some point. I might be off though.

Could everything we've seen to date already BE in the mirror universe?

No.

I assumed the Mirror Thing was just for us. I mean it's not like we're going to have Stamets say "Hey Captain, my mirror is doing this weird thing." Kind of like the reflection of Benny Russell in the window in Far Beyond the Stars... it wasn't actually there, right?

Yes, I didn't see it as quite so literal either. Loved the surreal quality of that moment. Trekkies would get their Starfleet knickers in a twist, but I would love for the show to feature more such elements.

I wish they had regular kissed though.

Yeah, I wished that, too. Watching the scene I hoped they would make this the episode remembered for the first man-on-man kiss in Star Trek, not the first time someone says “Fuck”. Here's hoping for future episodes.

By far the best Trek series start through the first 5 episodes in my opinion.

Very true. None of the other shows, save for probably the original, had such strong beginnings. I hope they can keep up the quality.

 

[cultcross]

I don't know, is it so obvious? Kinda wish I didn't know about the Voq theory, because I'm not sure I really find it that obvious that he's a spy. My wife at least – who doesn't know about the theory – didn't say she suspects Tyler

You are quite correct. Trekkie friends of mine with whom I discuss the show but who are not privy to the internet discussions were in fact asking whether 'that new crewman' was a one off. So they clearly didn't think the same thing I did.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I agree about the blinky lights, but I think it was specifically supposed to be a sonic toothbrush, just a low-key one.

Well, then I'm not sure what the poster I was quoting was complaining about if it was actually a high tech toothbrush rather than just a conventional one. I haven't had a chance to see the episode yet, so I was just addressing his description of the scene.

 

[Starbreaker]

Like... 9.5 from me. This was outstanding. The shots of space, the camera work, the stellar acting, the great script. This is my favorite episode so far.

 

[marsh8472]

I was too quick to judge the toothbrushes. Apparently what's cool about those is that you don't need toothpaste or to spit anything out? I would have preferred some kind of scanning laser that removes the plaque from your teeth in a few seconds.

 

[cultcross]

And no self-respecting planetary government would ever capitulate to terms that required their own standing navy to be absorbed into one hedquarted on a different planet.

Why not? United states, colonies etc often cede their individual armed forces to one headquartered elsewhere once formal union is reached. The USA is one such example, as is Germany, or the United Kingdom. There's no Scottish Army, but there was once.

 

[Kor]

Great ep! Not sure about the leaving Mudd thing? Loved Stamets in this! Glad to see they let the creature go! Bit pissed off about Tyler's accent ha! All this talk of 'diversity' but everyone in Starfleet and on the Discovery is seemingly American! (Before anyone gets offended I like Americans and lived in Tennessee for a year!) Not sure why they keep casting Brits and then have them doing generic Yank accents? Probably badly! Not sure I buy Lorca's explanation as to why he survived his last commands explosion...Lorca is a Klingon!?

And most characters played by actors of non-Western heritage have gotten Western names: Georgiou, Landry, Rhys, Tyler.

If the intent is to show how the humanity of the future has surpassed current ethnic and cultural boundaries, then we also need the reverse: actors of Western-heritage playing characters with non-Western names. Otherwise it just looks like Western cultures assimilated a lot of the rest of the world.

Kor

 

[F. King Daniel]

I was sure the Fed guy Lorca found in jail was a Klingon spy until his final fist fight with the Klingon woman who got half her face shot off.

Someone said fuck. Someone else said fuck. About a minute later I realised people swore on Star Trek.

The mirror bit at the end was cool and freaky.

 

[cultcross]

Sure someone's mentioned it already, but they said the episode name again