Where did all the future tech come from?

[Kemaiku]

Even without the novels, they had their homeworlds and a few colonies not worth mentioning.

 

[lawman]

Because the real world had the misfortune to advance 50 years and the things that impressed people then looks laughable now when depicted as futuristic. My iPad looks better than any computer on TOS.

This is always the most logical response to every one of these threads, yet it's always overlooked by the OP as if it isn't.

Well, yes and no. It's a non-diegetic response — one that depends on knowledge outside the context of the story. What the OP is asking about is clearly a diegetic rationale — one that makes sense within the story, hence without disrupting the "willing suspension of disbelief."

Ultimately, after all, a perfectly logical answer for why anything happens in any story ever is "because the author said so" — but that's not a particularly satisfying explanation. It's the same reason why "the makeup budget improved" was never a satisfying explanation for the change in the appearance of the Klingons from TMP forward.

I know it probably made more than a few viewers and fans cringe, but I loved when Stamets mentioned his family member who plays in a Beatles tribute band. Hearing John Lennon's name uttered in Star Trek is almost surreal, but hey...if the Beatles are still popular music in the 2250s it helps explain why Dr. Sevrin's followers loved '60s-style twangy pop music in the 2260s. Seems that classical symphonies and orchestral compositions aren't the only popular Earth music in Starfleet in the 23rd century.

Yep! Loved that. If there's such a thing as genuinely timeless music, I think it's fair to say the Beatles qualify.

It's just one of those things you have to pretend was different than the episode portrayed... Like the galactic barrier, human Klingons (until Enterprise put it's head up it's arse to explain them), Romulans without forehead prosthetics, rubbish looking Gorn, a man being remote controlled by a few buttons on a box (seriously, does McCoy keep those lying around just in case?), no female captains, phasers being called lasers, officers in minis, Romulans having interstellar travel but no warp drive, poor understanding of the immensity of "even" a star system, Khan in the 90's, etc etc etc.

I'd say most of those things don't require one to "pretend" at all. The galactic barrier can be explained in-story; the appearance of the Klingons also eventually got explained in-story (even if you personally didn't like it); as far as I'm concerned the Romulans with forehead prosthetics in TNG were an anomaly to squint away, since the look made no sense given their shared ancestry with Vulcans; the Gorn was no worse than any other "costumed" alien on the show, and is merely an artifact of effects technology, not design aesthetics or story contradictions; "Spock's Brain" is simply not fair to bring up as an example of anything, any more than VOY's "Threshold"; "no female captains" was and is a deliberate misunderstanding of dialogue; "lasers" were referenced exactly once, in "The Cage"; there's nothing at all wrong with miniskirts; Romulan warp drive: see "no female captains"; and Khan and the Eugenics Wars were in the 1990s, which is no problem, since Trek's future is clearly not our own timeline and never has been, as was plain even in the '60s (e.g., "Assignment: Earth").

I remember reading that and wondering why the writer felt the need to give an in universe expo for something that was just down to lapse of time and increase in technology. I think its the same writer that came up with an in universe reason for the lack of diversity in TOS Enterprise.

Same reason I described above: an in-story explanation for something is qualitatively different, and more satisfying, than an explanation that forces you to think outside the story.

 

[uniderth]

"lasers" were referenced exactly once, in "The Cage"

"Lasers" were referenced twice in "The Cage" and twice in "The Menagerie."

 

[cgervasi]

The Discovery is 12 years newer than the Enterprise. So while the Enterprise may not be able to pull it off, a new ship with the latest in transporters maybe can. People keep forgetting the enterprise is an old and maybe failed design.

Is the Discovery newer than the Enterprise in TOS? Enterprise existed 13 years prior to Kirk commanding it, according the The Menagerie. The Enterprise appeared to have been upgraded since The Menagerie. It's also stated during TOS that the Enterprise is one of the fastest ships. So I would not expect the Discovery to have superior transporters.

I do not think we will see holodecks. But Holodecks may not have been new in TNG, but on a ship they may have been. DS9, which predated the Galaxy class had them, so the tech was not new

In Season 1, the characters may have been marveling that such a good holodeck was a on a ship, but it really seemed like they considered the technology itself a marvel.
From The Big Goodbye:

PICARD: From that window, I could see an entire, er
DATA: City block.
PICARD: That's right. Sounds, Smells.
CRUSHER: You make it sound so real.
PICARD: That's how it felt.
CRUSHER: Incredible.

Regarding DS9, we don't know when the holosuites were installed on DS9. I suspect they were installed after the Cardassians withdrew, which was years after Season 1 TNG.

 

[urbandefault]

The problem with the future is that it keeps changing. I blame time travelers.

"The future hasn't been written yet." --Doc Brown

GR would probably say that the Discovery design aesthetic is how TOS always looked in universe.

And as for the timeline thing: It's not the Kel-verse, the alternate timeline from the films, so CBS' Disco-verse is Prime. Because they say so.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

Is the Discovery newer than the Enterprise in TOS? Enterprise existed 13 years prior to Kirk commanding it, according the The Menagerie. The Enterprise appeared to have been upgraded since The Menagerie. It's also stated during TOS that the Enterprise is one of the fastest ships. So I would not expect the Discovery to have superior transporters.

I think you misunderstood me. The Enterprise was built in 2244. she was 20 year old when Kirk got her and in the current timeline is 12 or 13 years old. She was maybe top of the line in 2244 with a brand new computer system, but as we saw with the walker, a refit in this era does not mean upgrading things like transporters. She is simply not a new design.

In Season 1, the characters may have been marveling that such a good holodeck was a on a ship, but it really seemed like they considered the technology itself a marvel.

They may have been, but by canon the tech has been around in some forum since TOS and we saw it in ENT. It may not have been physically solid holograms, but they have been around.

Regarding DS9, we don't know when the holosuites were installed on DS9. I suspect they were installed after the Cardassians withdrew, which was years after Season 1 TNG.

This is true, but by ENT some races have had the tech since the 2150's. I get the feeling quark brought it and he was there a long while.

 

[cgervasi]

This is true, but by ENT some races have had the tech since the 2150's. I get the feeling quark brought it and he was there a long while.

I didn't like seeing it in ENT, but I agree it was there. And I like your notion that the Ferengi had it for a long time. The Ferengi seem focused on getting people what they want, while the Federation is focused on getting them what they need. I could see them having since the time of ENT, and it not being widely adopted in the UFP for over a hundred years.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

I didn't like seeing it in ENT, but I agree it was there. And I like your notion that the Ferengi had it for a long time. The Ferengi seem focused on getting people what they want, while the Federation is focused on getting them what they need. I could see them having since the time of ENT, and it not being widely adopted in the UFP for over a hundred years.

It could have been a power hog. I mean TNG was a lot of firsts, older stations and ships maybe just could not handle the power needs or the computer requirements. Also we do not know if the ENT tech was solid, only that they looked solid. This does not mean they were totally solid. It also does not mean that alien tech worked on alien systems. There is a lot of leeway and ways to mess with loopholes here.

 

[Tuskin38]

2:I do not think we will see holodecks. But Holodecks may not have been new in TNG, but on a ship they may have been. DS9, which predated the Galaxy class had them, so the tech was not new

There were also Holodeck-like devices on the Enterprise in TAS IIRC

a new ship with the latest in transporters maybe can.

Wasn't it described as hard to do in TNG?

 

[Mirror Mirror]

There were also Holodeck-like devices on the Enterprise in TAS IIRC

Yep

Wasn't it described as hard to do in TNG?

Not that I recall, but it might have been.

 

[Vger23]

It's precisely WHY it isn't hard to update the uniforms that they will never be a problem. Just say that Starfleet likes to change uniform styles a lot. Problem solved.

That said, I did hear that the DSC costuming department has created some much more Cage-like unis and has them stored away for future use. FWIW.

That's not imagination...Starfleet DOES like to change uniform styles a lot.

 

[cgervasi]

It could have been a power hog. I mean TNG was a lot of firsts, older stations and ships maybe just could not handle the power needs or the computer requirements.

It could run a different type of power that not typically installed on star ships. That's why VOY was able to use it whenever they wanted while supposedly rationing everything else.

I think I am writing this comment to poke fun a VOY, but it also makes sense if accept VOY's claim of the holodecks being on a different power system.

 

[fireproof78]

Ultimately, after all, a perfectly logical answer for why anything happens in any story ever is "because the author said so" — but that's not a particularly satisfying explanation. It's the same reason why "the makeup budget improved" was never a satisfying explanation for the change in the appearance of the Klingons from TMP forward.

Satisfaction varies from individual to individual.

As to the OP's point, personally, I like the idea that TOS was actually a dramatic recreation for Federation citizens.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

It could run a different type of power that not typically installed on star ships. That's why VOY was able to use it whenever they wanted while supposedly rationing everything else.

I think I am writing this comment to poke fun a VOY, but it also makes sense if accept VOY's claim of the holodecks being on a different power system.

Nah VOY was just bad writing. I think the issue was an alien system to Federation standard systems. really though they likely had to be power and processor hogs.

 

[lawman]

"Lasers" were referenced twice in "The Cage" and twice in "The Menagerie."

Well, if we're going to be pedantically specific about it... the only mention of lasers occurred in exactly one episode, "The Cage," and was only ever broadcast when portions of that unaired episode were repurposed for use in "The Menagerie." To call this minor a continuity glitch something that dates the show is on the same level as complaining about the headstone for "James R. Kirk."

I think you misunderstood me. The Enterprise was built in 2244. she was 20 year old when Kirk got her and in the current timeline is 12 or 13 years old. She was maybe top of the line in 2244 with a brand new computer system, but as we saw with the walker, a refit in this era does not mean upgrading things like transporters. She is simply not a new design.

[Holodecks] may have been, but by canon the tech has been around in some forum since TOS and we saw it in ENT. It may not have been physically solid holograms, but they have been around.

This is true, but by ENT some races have had the tech since the 2150's. I get the feeling quark brought it and he was there a long while.

You're quite right about the Enterprise... it's worth remembering that it's been out there for over a decade at the point we're being introduced to the Discovery.

As for holodecks, even without making reference to ENT (which I prefer to avoid, not least because it's hardly fair to hold TNG to story points not broadcast until 15 years later), it's true that a proto-holodeck was a feature of the original Enterprise in TAS... so some form of the tech had clearly been around for a while.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Is the Discovery newer than the Enterprise in TOS? Enterprise existed 13 years prior to Kirk commanding it, according the The Menagerie. The Enterprise appeared to have been upgraded since The Menagerie. It's also stated during TOS that the Enterprise is one of the fastest ships. So I would not expect the Discovery to have superior transporters.

I wouldn't expect Discovery or Shenzhou to have atmospheric forcefields, but they did. Discovery has one on her shuttlebay, whereas the TOS Enterprise had to decompress her shuttlebay to receive craft, a decade later.

First evidence of atmospheric forcefields comes in The Motion Picture in 2273, and the first time we see one used to seal a hull breach is 2293 when Kirk is lost on the Enterprise-B.

 

[Timo]

It should be noted that every time the characters of TNG commented on their holodecks, they specifically commented on the quality of the illusion. If anything, this suggests they had a point of comparison, a reference frame. And canon provides plenty of that.

It's just that a television set can't convey the quality of a holographic illusion very well. The visuals were never considered impressive in TNG - only things we cannot see through a television screen, such as tactile realism, smells, and smoothness of character interaction (TV cuts totally obscure that one), were.

As for forcefields, Kirk's ship never had a hole in her...

And Kirk had an actual shuttle hangar. Lorca lacks one: his teeny weeny landing bay has no separate compartment in which to let crews embark or disembark. He would have to pump out the entire flight deck, rather than just the disembarkation hangar, if he didn't keep those forcefields up.

Yet who would want to keep a room that big pressurized (unless absolutely having to, like Lorca)? No chance of containing a leak with compartmentalization there.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[cgervasi]

I wouldn't expect Discovery or Shenzhou to have atmospheric forcefields, but they did. Discovery has one on her shuttlebay, whereas the TOS Enterprise had to decompress her shuttlebay to receive craft, a decade later.

First evidence of atmospheric forcefields comes in The Motion Picture in 2273, and the first time we see one used to seal a hull breach is 2293 when Kirk is lost on the Enterprise-B.

Because of the importance of maintaining atmosphere, I always assumed, without evidence, that the TOS-era Enterprise had emergency force fields to maintain pressure. I never imagined they relied on bulkheads coming down.

Does DIS or any of the shows have a force field that can contain atmosphere but allow shuttles to pass through? It's funny how I can't remember that.

 

[Tesophius]

The better tech is actually the one aspect of STD that I don't mind, because it takes place in the 23rd century, the tech that exists by then should be incomprehensible to us. I don't care that it's not "canon" I just wish the stories were interesting and didn't involve klingons.

 

[Timo]

Because of the importance of maintaining atmosphere, I always assumed, without evidence, that the TOS-era Enterprise had emergency force fields to maintain pressure. I never imagined they relied on bulkheads coming down.

Actually, the TOS corridor sets often feature those funnily angled support frames that could well be two heavy pressure doors hinged to swing to the sides - if anything fails, they come crashing down and seal the corridor, in an idiotproof, power failure -proof maneuver (since gravity typically doesn't fail even in extreme power crises)...

Does DIS or any of the shows have a force field that can contain atmosphere but allow shuttles to pass through? It's funny how I can't remember that.

ST:TMP shows such a thing in action, letting in a workbee towing cargo containers when Kirk first arrives on the ship. TNG "The Child", the second-season opener, is a very prominent episode to showcase the tech although it remains in use throughout TNG. And in DSC "Context is for Kings", we see shuttles come and go through a forcefield, which in this show actually flashes bright blue (in a funny zigzag pattern) when challenged or penetrated.

Kirk had forcefields - at his brig doors. Whether he had those on the shuttlebay, too, we don't know, because there's no obligation for a forcefield to visibly flare up when something like a shuttle sails through. It's just that we know Kirk's shuttle ops involved some pumping for pressurization / depressurization, specifically of the "hangar" as the gauge on the corridor set says.

Timo Saloniemi