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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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What really sucks is that this particular group has about 3,000 more Orville fans than the official group. I'm sure with the way Alec runs things it will be 300 in a month, but it's still frustrating to see him working another room full of unsuspecting innocents already.

If he wrecks an innocent group outside his own project, one can hope the word will get around on FB. But of course, he could always reappear as Matt "Red Omega" Mason or something.

One promising thing: if he ticks off Seth MacFarlane, you can be sure there will be hell to pay. In public. In media. Alec may even have them "do a special on him", to put it in purist Trek terms.
 
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Thanks to @muCephi and @jespah for the detailed summaries. I had learned bit and pieces up to this point, but this info helps put it all in much better clarity. I appreciate your taking the time to inform. :techman:

What a convoluted mess Axanar productions got themselves into. I expect that all the facets of this have been debated extensively in this enormous topic. I'd like to stake a conclusion stab at what I've learned thus far... to see if I understand things right:

It's hard to know for certain what the absolute "real deal" is... in terms of Axanar Production deeds and intentions. It sure sounds like after pulling in over $1m in donations, they weren't very prudent and conservative with their spending... and it seems like there was some abuse. Once you lose the trust factor, you can forget about solid backing.

Clearly Peters achieved a phenomenal level of intrigue and attention to his Star Trek fanfic production. Maybe too much? On the one end, getting too "full" and being wasteful with funds... presuming the money will just keep flowing in, and on the other end, encroaching on commercial studio quality that could then possibly compete with a major production studio... attracting the ire of CBS.

Having viewed most of the TOS fanfic productions, Star Trek Continues impressed me the most. Truly fantastic work... yet, still amateur level "just enough" that it wouldn't ruffle CBS feathers. They promised not to sell the episodes, so there is no profiteering on the Star Trek name. But it seems that Axanar Productions came too close. Got far enough in the radar scope to excite the CBS legal team.

There are haters out there who seem to have a major chip on the shoulder and with their cobbled-together hate messaging and some make themselves easily refutable by the pro-Axanar team (like that petty stalking bit on Slow Lane's blog). But somethings are irrefutable. Axanar Productions took in $1.4m in funding and they're limping along with needs for more funds in order to complete the first episode. WTF? That's pretty bad management in my book. Also, if it weren't for Axanar, CBS wouldn't have published official guidelines on fanfic productions with excruciating limitations. They're truly unfair, IMHO... penalizing all Star Trek fanfic productions currently in operation. That's presuming that CBS will strictly enforce those guidelines. Wasn't some of the early fanfic productions having to reason with CBS at different points and be sure to lend assurances of non-compete, no profit making?

Lastly... Star Trek New Voyages was fun and very campy... and I applaud Cawley for all his hard work and devotion on it. Naturally, he wanted to be the captain. I think they could have made a better acting choice for that role, but Cawley wanted to live the dream of pretending to be Captain Kirk. And so he got that chance. I think it was a good run, but clearly Vic's Kirk is a more convincing one in Star Trek Continues. Which leads me to Axanar. Peters as Garth? When he's around real Hollywood talent? Sure doesn't look good to me. I know, he sure wants to do the Cawley thing of living his Star Trek fantasy, but if they want to make a solid production either he'd have to get some serious acting chops pronto, or step aside for someone who can do that role justice. That's assuming they really want to do a high production value amateur series. So even if there wasn't this legal bog down for Axanar, I think they'd be struggling with Peters as Garth. He just doesn't cut it... doesn't even look the part, IMHO.
 
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@Gary7, Axanar seemed to have started out on decent legs, it had lots of professionals on board, it made a preview. But it all went to hell, and in every single respect, everyone who quit pointed back to Alec and said "this is extremely bad". Not "maybe it began to drift a bit off course".

It just doesn't help understanding to pack cotton candy around Axanar so as to be cautious in judgment. Donors were endlessly verbally abused and ejected for asking reasonable questions. Alec flat out said on podcasts if CBS doesn't like that we are using their IP, then too bad, but they abandoned it by not making true Trek anymore. He and RMB said they intended to make a for profit studio with money from the donations for this project. He took in many times more than most fan films and produced almost nothing, while managing to spend it all on what he wanted to spend it on to try to build himself a business, not just waste it on bad judgment.

There is the cloud of ideals which fans would tend to subscribe to, and it is attractive to talk about them. There's a lot of interesting what ifs around Axanar. But then there is the pure core of sueable conduct which underlies it.

My own suggestion is to separate the two. Axanar is not the ideals, it is the business conduct of the persons who organized and ran this particular project. They don't get to claim the ideals. They were not doing a fan film, they were trying to build a for profit business using the cash value of Trek IP. They deliberately used the space allocated for fan film activity to try to drill a well and pump out revenues from Trek. They tried to get around licensing and IP law and exploit the unregulated arena of crowdsourcing to make work done in the "fan" space into for-profit activity.

I personally would like to see all the fans separate the two layers and thereby have to acknowledge the nature of the business behavior as terminal for this entire project. But I settle for the court having done so while throwing in various Trek themed barbs for good measure.
 
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@Gary7: Another item that wasn't mentioned above was the way Mr. Peters went about goading CBS into creating the Fan-Film guidelines. Okay, CBS said those were inevitable and NOT due to anything Mr. Peters did, but I wouldn't be alone in thinking Axanar was the proverbial straw that injured the camel. The thing is, if you dig back about four years ago into the Trek-BBS archives, before he was banned from this site, Mr. Peters asked for and was given the "unwritten rules" for fan-film production and funding. If you look at what he was told, what he said "sounds pretty reasonable", and then look at everything he did, it appears that he used the "don't do this" list as his to-do checklist.

-- Don't use KickStarter due to their rules. Check.
-- Don't raise more money than you need to cover current expenses. Check.
-- Don't sell unlicensed merchandise. Check.
-- Don't hire an all-professional crew to run cameras and lights and such. Check.
-- Don't put an all-professional cast in front of the camera (one or two is okay as Special Guest Star). Check.
-- Don't use the Trek name to start your own for-profit business. Check.
-- Don't bad-mouth other fan-film productions. Check.
-- Don't bad-mouth CBS / Paramount. Check.
-- Don't continue production if CBS / Paramount tells you they don't like the direction you're going. Check.

Granted, some of the other fan-film productions broke or at least badly bent some of the rules, but Axanar Productions flaunted every single rule on the list. They really didn't give CBS much choice in the matter.
 
Granted, some of the other fan-film productions broke or at least badly bent some of the rules, but Axanar Productions flaunted every single rule on the list. They really didn't give CBS much choice in the matter.
Wasn't it Alec that proved that a super exciting, totally awesome fan film could be produced in 90 seconds or less?
 
Just catching up on the drama and I have a question. It seems that most or all of the original talent that went into Prelude has left (or passed, unfortunately), but I'm not sure about the CGI talent, Tobias I believe. Any word if he's still on board or not?

Also, and I know this has been pointed out ad nauseam, but what a friggen' hypocrite. How many alias' has LFIM gotten booted form this site alone, and he has the gall to whine a bout a troll with a false identity on FB? :barf::brickwall:

I just went through the script review which was wonderfully entertaining. Kudos to that author! Sadly, it seems to have confirmed my inkling that I wouldn't have enjoyed the movie at all, and the only thing that drew me to Axanar in the first place was the future's past documentary format. I'm tempted to go through the script and count how many times Garth receives praise per page, but I dunno if I want to subject myself to that. :ack:

It seems the current plan is to create 2 additional mockumentary videos, but I doubt they'll ever see the light of day. As someone pointed out about 50 pages ago "He's not making any movies".

Axanar: tragedy, farce, and fiasco. But there's a bright side! This thread and it's links has given me far FAR more entertainment than Axanar ever could have :techman:
 
Oh, one other thing (there's just so much and I am pulling this stuff from memory) - they paid themselves salaries.

No lie!

It's in their own poorly-written and incorrectly calculated financials, which are referenced in these places (and ended up in legal exhibits during motion practice):
The Peters salary of $38,000 per annum was referred to by him, on more than one occasion as, "practically minimum wage" (N. B. Minimum wage in the great state of California was upped to $15/hour by the legislature in 2016. This would bring an annual minimum wage, assuming a 40-hour week with 2 weeks of unpaid vacation, seeing as a lot of minimum wage workers don't get vacation and simply aren't paid if they don't work, to $30,000, AKA only 78.94% of the salary drawn by Peters).

The Kingsbury salary was always listed as "deferred", which is against California labor law. She also had her own gas card from the production, paid for by the donors.

Along with the automotive necessities, the meals, and the convention appearances (including travel and to pay to get onto the fast line at airport security), is also known as ....

....

(wait for it)

....

(drum roll please)

profit.

Someone profiting off an IP they do not own and are copying is pretty close to the textbook definition of copyright infringement. The copying was slavish and as close as they could make it - because they wanted it to be confused for the real thing.

The concept of it being "too good" is often misunderstood, and the production doesn't really take pains to correct any misconceptions. It's not that it's quality in the sense that quality = good stuff, superior stuff, lovely stuff we want to hug and squeeze and name George. Rather, the term quality, in this sense = characteristic. Saying it was a production of Trek quality does not impart any artistic merit. Instead, in this sense, it means the paying public could be confused.

A confused paying public is a part of what's called 'market harm', which is a way of showing damages in a case such as this.
  • Profit
  • Slavish copying/striving for an accurate copy
  • Market harm
  • Confused public
  • No permission
  • Warnings from official folks (John Van Citters, VP of CBS Product, for one)
  • Attempting to create a for-profit business
  • Perks never going out/film not being delivered
  • Store with knockoff merch
  • Convention trips riding on the backs of donor funds
  • Salaries
These are the fundamentals of this case, no matter what the Axanar-loving crowd claims.

PS @urbandefault thanks! :)
 
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Will work for pie.
fb78ee4c-fda4-42c5-bc2b-a3ecf0096a29.jpg

I had a slice. Hope you don't mind.
 
Just catching up on the drama and I have a question. It seems that most or all of the original talent that went into Prelude has left (or passed, unfortunately), but I'm not sure about the CGI talent, Tobias I believe. Any word if he's still on board or not?

I believe Tobias is long gone from the project.

Also, and I know this has been pointed out ad nauseam, but what a friggen' hypocrite. How many alias' has LFIM gotten booted form this site alone, and he has the gall to whine a bout a troll with a false identity on FB? :barf::brickwall:

Actually, that sort of conduct is so below the noise level compared to the ongoing parade that you my have been the first here to bother to object to it by name :lol: But yeah, totally.

I just went through the script review which was wonderfully entertaining. Kudos to that author! Sadly, it seems to have confirmed my inkling that I wouldn't have enjoyed the movie at all, and the only thing that drew me to Axanar in the first place was the future's past documentary format. I'm tempted to go through the script and count how many times Garth receives praise per page, but I dunno if I want to subject myself to that. :ack:

Garth's brilliance illumes the printed script right through the bejeweled box in which the original work sits. The statuary room where the box rests upon a central pillar shines like the sun.

It seems the current plan is to create 2 additional mockumentary videos, but I doubt they'll ever see the light of day. As someone pointed out about 50 pages ago "He's not making any movies".

Kinda shows the gold rush part of this. Try to stake out a period of Trek that hasn't been officially used yet in the minds of video-only fans, get there first and get set up, so you 'own' it in the 'head canon' of fans. Its always seemed to me this was a big part of the goal in as much as angling in Trek timeline was going on, to be the definer not an also-ran.

Axanar: tragedy, farce, and fiasco. But there's a bright side! This thread and it's links has given me far FAR more entertainment than Axanar ever could have :techman:

Certainly wondering where this new front with Mr. MacFarlane's project might end up.
 
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What really sucks is that this particular group has about 3,000 more Orville fans than the official group. I'm sure with the way Alec runs things it will be 300 in a month, but it's still frustrating to see him working another room full of unsuspecting innocents already.
Keep in mind LFIM has his naughty and nice list from his Axanar disaster so conducting a purge as an admin of the "haters" would be predictable. There will be Orville props for him to try acquiring from Fox in the future so I can imagine LFIM at the FB Orville site advertising his auction sales and ban people that slipped through the cracks who point out his past hinky behaviors all in one fell swoop.
 
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