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Things you HATED about this show. As much as there are positives about STD there is much CRINGE!

Zod said:
Well it didn't work for me. These Klingons were supposed to be traditionalists. They had a fleet. It was dishonorable.

As to the other stuff I'm not buying that either. The plan was capture not kill and what were like four klingons doing on the bridge? It was huge, shouldn't there have been more? Reminded me of Nemesis. Huge Reman ship almost totally empty.
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I think different Klingons have different concepts of honor and for these Klingons starting a war and uniting the Houses is more important then fighting fair.

Even how people on Earth who have the same culture or religion, act very different from each other, I think this is realistic.
 
The Overlord said:
I think different Klingons have different concepts of honor and for these Klingons starting a war and uniting the Houses is more important then fighting fair.

Even how people on Earth who have the same culture or religion, act very different from each other, I think this is realistic.
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The Klingons aren't humans, so why are you assigning human norms to them?

Further in the digital age of interconnection, cultures tend towards amalgamation till it's just one big melting pot with the best parts of all the others.
 
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Klingons in TOS were backstabbing, conniving aholes. Even TMP or later they attack from hidden places all the time. Its long been pointed out klingons view of honor tends to be "Flexible". And taken that this is a very old school version that still mummifies the dead, they may not have anything like the honor code we see later klignons use( and often ignore)
 
Zod said:
Well it didn't work for me. These Klingons were supposed to be traditionalists. They had a fleet. It was dishonorable.

As to the other stuff I'm not buying that either. The plan was capture not kill and what were like four klingons doing on the bridge? It was huge, shouldn't there have been more? Reminded me of Nemesis. Huge Reman ship almost totally empty.
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Fateor said:
The Klingons aren't humans, so why are you assigning human norms to them?

Further in the digital age of interconnection, cultures tend towards amalgamation till it's just one big melting pot with the best parts of all the others.
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Clearly not in the US where we have a growing partisan divide or in the Middle East, where there is a lot of factional fighting.

Klingons are fictional characters, they are as human or alien as the writers want them to be and the writers often make them allegories for human cultures.

The Klingon are not the Borg, there are individual Klingons and we have seen different Klingons act differently. One Star Trek trope that needs to die is total monoculture alien cultures who always act the same no matter what, it makes Star Trek aliens seem like stereotypes.
 
Mirror Mirror said:
Klingons in TOS were backstabbing, conniving aholes. Even TMP or later they attack from hidden places all the time. Its long been pointed out klingons view of honor tends to be "Flexible". And taken that this is a very old school version that still mummifies the dead, they may not have anything like the honor code we see later klignons use( and often ignore)
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Honor for a Klingon is announcing that you are going to backstab them before you do it.
 
Zod said:
Now after two viewings of both eps.

I hate the very idea that a Klingon leader would fire unprovoked on another ship in a sneak attack. To state that you are sending envoys and to then open fire is downright un Klingon. It's without honor. The klingons stab you in the front, not the back.

Next michael kills the leader and does exactly the opposite of what she went there for. First they play up her Vulcan character then have her act totally in anger? Plus what the hell is the captain doing on a suicide mission when her ship is close to destruction? Couldn't find security officers?

I also hated the other huge cloaked ship ramming the Europa.It was confusing as hell trying to figure out if it was the original one or not.
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Go and rewatch DS9 - "The Way of the Warrior"

WORF: Captain, I'm detecting some debris, bearing zero two five mark three one nine.
SISKO: Commander, drop is to one quarter impulse.
DAX: Aye, Captain.
WORF: It appears to be the wreckage of a number of Cardassian vessels.
SISKO: On screen.
BASHIR: Are there any signs of survivors?
DAX: I suppose it's possible, but there's no way to know without decloaking and using our primary sensor array.
WORF: Sir, I strongly recommend against that. It is likely there are cloaked Klingon warships in the vicinity, lying in wait.
BASHIR: Well that doesn't sound very honourable to me.
WORF: In war, there is nothing more honourable than victory.
SISKO: Commander, keep us at one quarter impulse until we clear the wreckage, then take us to warp.
BASHIR: But sir, if there are survivors
SISKO: I'm sorry, Doctor. We can't risk it. We have to reach Dukat.
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Also, if they are TOS era Klingons, again, they are more devious then TNG era Klingons.
 
...that they didn't just set this in the kelvin timeline.

i know, i know, dead horse.
 
Fateor said:
You are thinking of sexual assault.
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I'm working towards a Master's degree in Mental Health Counseling and volunteer at a community mental health agency. I have 4 younger adopted siblings all with trauma history, and increasing difficulty in forming attachments with my parents and appropriate social interactions.

No, I'm not thinking of sexual assault. I'm thinking of trauma. Children are resilient, but only with therapy do they overcome that history.

mickmike said:
It doesn't matter what the event is. Trauma in childhood causes significant changes to how the brain functions into adulthood. There are countless studies that prove this. These changes are often irreparable and require long term therapeutic techniques like CBT or DBT therapy and medications.
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Sorry I missed your post. You are right! :)
 
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Noname Given said:
Go and rewatch DS9 - "The Way of the Warrior"



Also, if they are TOS era Klingons, again, they are more devious then TNG era Klingons.
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These Klingons did not strike me as being like the House of Duras. Not even close. Even from the small look we had they were traditional followers of Kayless. They flew around in ships that paid homage to the ancient ways and past. I think honor would be important to this group. To then unite all the great houses to go along with a sneak attack seems a little far fetched to me. Attack? Sure... But that way? Nope. I would have believed it more if they refused negotiations and gave the federation one hour to retreat. Which of course they couldn't.

Now if this is just the way things will be with far more Romulan type Klingons I will just have to get used to it. But in my view it breaks continuity.
 
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Zod said:
These Klingons did not strike me as being like the House of Duras. Not even close. Even from the small look we had they were traditional followers of Kayless. They flew around in ships divoted to the ancient ways and past. To then unite all the great houses to go along with a sneak attack seems far fetched to me. Attack? Sure... But that way? Nope

Now if this is just the way things will be with far more Romulan type Klingons I will just have to get used to it. But in my view it breaks continuity.
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As opposed to Klingon ships sneaking in to Federation space to steal Federation technology or get in a fight with Kirk?
 
fireproof78 said:
As opposed to Klingon ships sneaking in to Federation space to steal Federation technology or get in a fight with Kirk?
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There are 24 houses and no way should this particular house act like that in my view. Sure House of Duras and those like them would attack Kirk, sneak, steal and even work with Romulans.

Also a well developed sense of honor does not develop overnight. I believe this group would have attacked but not the way they did.
 
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Zod said:
There are 24 houses and no way should this particular house act like that in my view. Sure House of Duras and those like them would attack Kirk, sneak, steal and even work with Romulans.

Also a well developed sense of honor does not develop overnight. I believe this group would have attacked but not the way they did.
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No, a well developed sense of honor doesn't develop overnight, and even Klingons are inconsistent in their application, especially in TOS, when glory was more of the goal, than honor. So, I'll agree to disagree.
 
fireproof78 said:
No, a well developed sense of honor doesn't develop overnight, and even Klingons are inconsistent in their application, especially in TOS, when glory was more of the goal, than honor. So, I'll agree to disagree.
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I'm just thrilled we can have debates and discussions like this again. It's been so long! ☺️
 
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