Something can be allegorical for one thing in one story, whereas the same thing can be allegorical for a different thing in a different story.
Are the new Klingons supposed to be White Republicans?
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It is kind of lazy and cheap. It was then and it is now. Just pop the black hat on the current enemy be it a 1960's communist Klingon stand in or a 2017 Trump supporter Klingon stand in.
People are trying to fit Harberts's comments into what the want to see.
He never compared the Klingons to Trump supporters specifically. He said the show would explore divisiveness and isolationism and how they affect racial divide/purity. Those things aren't limited to Trump supporters.
It was Berg who went on to say the end of the season will parallel Trump's handing of North Korea and the drum beating of his supporters.
That said. It was pretty obvious Starfleet was the blue state and the Klingons were the red state.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
He never compared the Klingons to Trump supporters specifically. He said the show would explore divisiveness and isolationism and how they affect racial divide/purity. Those things aren't limited to Trump supporters.
It was Berg who went on to say the end of the season will parallel Trump's handing of North Korea and the drum beating of his supporters.
That said. It was pretty obvious Starfleet was the blue state and the Klingons were the red state.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
North Korea situation is actually very interesting... and since they are an isolated, totalitarian state actor I would find that comparison acceptable (i.e. could compare USSR to NK, but not USSR to altright).
It is tempting to want to make the North Koreans fear us. The "soft power" approach has failed for 4 presidential administrations ("deals" with fuel oil, lifting of sanctions, etc). This new kid Kim Jong Un may be even harder to deal with than his father. In that sense, the Klingon analogy works. Maybe NK only responds to threats, like Sonneqa suggested with the "Klingon welcome"
That said I am generally a soft power guy. Fell in love with Obama for his foreign policy. Maybe NK is an exception.
It is tempting to want to make the North Koreans fear us. The "soft power" approach has failed for 4 presidential administrations ("deals" with fuel oil, lifting of sanctions, etc). This new kid Kim Jong Un may be even harder to deal with than his father. In that sense, the Klingon analogy works. Maybe NK only responds to threats, like Sonneqa suggested with the "Klingon welcome"
That said I am generally a soft power guy. Fell in love with Obama for his foreign policy. Maybe NK is an exception.
Maybe Sonneqa is Altright/Trump supporter? 
My general understanding is that the 'Klingons are trump supporters' stuff is based on a comment by one of the executive producers that has been misquoted and taken out of context. I think it wasn't so much trump supporters, but the social and political divisiveness of the 2016 election that is being explored. I think this season is going to be an exploration of how you achieve peace or at least a cessation of conflict with people you view as an ideological enemy.
Nah, the Romulans are North Korea. Didn't you see the Enterprise Incident?
I think so, she favoured action.Maybe Sonneqa is Altright/Trump supporter?
Something tells me the writers have no interest in talking about radical Islam. Far too taboo for them.
That's another thing that irked me about Obama... his refusal to mention radical islam
That's another thing that irked me about Obama... his refusal to mention radical islam
It was more nuanced than just Klingons=Trumpers. Sure, T'Kuvma wants to make Qo'nos great again, and sees diversity as the enemy. But he's also a religious zealot who wants to build a Caliphate and unite all Klingons together, against corrosive Federation values which are against the teachings of Kahless. It felt like as much a critique of Isis to me.
This.
The comment was that they were using the concept of political divide as an inspiration. Not literally casting analogues for Trump supporters and Hillary supporters. Given when they started writing this show, and the assumption that Hillary would win the election, that would have been an extremely dated analogy by now. They were inspired by the idea of political rifts so big that them seem insurmountable. Latterly they have also commented on how, almost by chance, that has led them to an analogy for the NK situation, which didn't exist (in the same form) when they started.
It's because ISIS and the extreme right are ultimately the same. They're ultraconservative fanatics that are afraid of progress and despise human rights.
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I think there are many parallels to be drawn from the Klingons, some subtle, some not so subtle.
But I think what I took from it was more a North Korea/Middle East situation; countries and cultures that view the very ideology of the West-- the ethos of democracy, freedom, and tolerance-- as a threat to their existence. NK particularly, who look around and feel increasingly isolated from a world that is more and more allied in its pursuit of liberty and justice. Cultures that constantly finding themselves on the defensive, and thus feel the need to attack.
But yes, I do think there are some parallels to white nationalism (I would not say "White Republicans")-- with the idea that Klingons want to "Remain Klingon". That phrase, coincidentally or not, also brings to mind Brexit, which has also been tinged with a bit of white nationalism.
I think as the story unfolds you see many people attempt to cast judgement on the show for portraying Klingons as Trump Voters, others will say they're Muslims, still more will claim BLM-- both as defensive and offensive arguments.
And that alone will be proof that they are far more an amalgam-- a representation of the many issues we face today-- rather than any one group of people.
And that is the most Trek thing about this show. Not the ships, not the costumes, props, or make-up. Not the SFX, not the ties to Trek lore... at its core this is a story of a political and social dilemma facing two cultures.
As a Trek fan, how could I ask for anything more?
But I think what I took from it was more a North Korea/Middle East situation; countries and cultures that view the very ideology of the West-- the ethos of democracy, freedom, and tolerance-- as a threat to their existence. NK particularly, who look around and feel increasingly isolated from a world that is more and more allied in its pursuit of liberty and justice. Cultures that constantly finding themselves on the defensive, and thus feel the need to attack.
But yes, I do think there are some parallels to white nationalism (I would not say "White Republicans")-- with the idea that Klingons want to "Remain Klingon". That phrase, coincidentally or not, also brings to mind Brexit, which has also been tinged with a bit of white nationalism.
I think as the story unfolds you see many people attempt to cast judgement on the show for portraying Klingons as Trump Voters, others will say they're Muslims, still more will claim BLM-- both as defensive and offensive arguments.
And that alone will be proof that they are far more an amalgam-- a representation of the many issues we face today-- rather than any one group of people.
And that is the most Trek thing about this show. Not the ships, not the costumes, props, or make-up. Not the SFX, not the ties to Trek lore... at its core this is a story of a political and social dilemma facing two cultures.
As a Trek fan, how could I ask for anything more?
I could see the allegory, but it was subtle enough that I didn't mind. Compare that to Supergirl where it was as subtle as an earthquake. And they had interesting touches like T'kuvma appealing to outcasts of Klingon society and seeking to unite the houses rather than trying to separate them all like Trump. So while it's clear where they got their inspiration, they just used it as a starting point to make the situation more relatable.
It isn't straight forward. There are certainly some messages about nationalism and cultural/racial/religious purity. When watching my friend said, "These are totally extremist Muslims" which is also a parallel that could be drawn. No one group owns these ideas. Many groups fit the bill of being afraid of the other and trying to preserve their own ideologies.
There were some other clever lines. Namely when the Admiral scolded Burnham for making generalizations based on race. Burnham responded, "Do not confuse race with culture." This could be a criticism of those who claim racism when there is legitimate worries about Islamic ideologies.
I'm aware that Trumpesters have ironically been "snowflakes" over the claim issues in this election would be covered, but these are pretty universal traits that are being explored. From what I took, a few things on the spectrum were touched.
There were some other clever lines. Namely when the Admiral scolded Burnham for making generalizations based on race. Burnham responded, "Do not confuse race with culture." This could be a criticism of those who claim racism when there is legitimate worries about Islamic ideologies.
I'm aware that Trumpesters have ironically been "snowflakes" over the claim issues in this election would be covered, but these are pretty universal traits that are being explored. From what I took, a few things on the spectrum were touched.
You know, I just realized that despite some of the things I didn't like about the show, after the show was over my brain didn't shut off in regards to it, I was still pondering aspects of it. So kudos to the showrunners there. I guess the Klingons could be anything, From Native Americans seeing the encroachment of European/Spanish settlers to social media echo chambers.
Perhaps you missed the two previous threads discussing how the Klingons would be used as an allegory for contemporary politics.
Kor
