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Attended the premiere - no spoilers

...just makes zero sense to me. You're writing a story that is intended to be the beginning of the story, so it should read(/view?) like the beginning of the story.
No. The point of many prequel TV shows or movies (especially "origin stories") is to make references to the original material. That's the way a prequel gets defined as a prequel (and again, BillJ can feel there are too many references, and that's fine...and not my point)

And when I say "original material", I don't care if DSC takes place in 2255-ish while TOS takes place in 2265-ish. TOS is still the original material because it was made in 1966 and DSC was made in 2017.
 
That might be true; however, that is not the point.

The point being argued here is that the inclusion of tribble in a story that is a prequel to TOS somehow causes the introduction to Star Trek Fans of tribbles in "The Trouble with Tribbles" to no longer make sense....

...as if someone would watch TOS: Trouble with Tribbles and say "what's the big deal?...we already saw tribbles 10 years earlier in DSC".
And further (and now I'm asuming because I haven't seen any ST: D episodes) iot's JUST ONE Tribble sitting there. The big thing about Tribbles in "The Trouble With Tribbles" is their reproduction rate <--- And if it's just the shot they have of it in the ST: D trailers that 'surprise' isn't spoiled.
 
And when I say "original material, I don't care if DSC takes place in 2255-ish while TOS takes place in 2265-ish, TOS is still the original material because it was made in 1966 and DSC was made in 2017.

By that standard, we should be able to bring in the Cardassians, Bajorans, Dominion and Borg and still consider all one consistent timeline.
 
By that standard, we should be able to bring in the Cardassians, Bajorans, Dominion and Borg and still consider all one consistent timeline.
If its done in a way that does not conflict with anything made so far, then yeah.

I'm not saying it should be done, but whether it "should" be done or not is not relevant to uniderth's argument about prequels suddenly becoming the franchises "original material" just because its fictional time period is earlier.

I mean, I don't think anyone should consider ENT to be the original material from which all trek should now be derived.
 
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Is there something that doesn't come from a predator filled environment?
There are actually quite a few animals on Earth that have evolved and live in environments where there are no predators. Most of them are on small isolated islands, but it still has been known to happen.
By that standard, we should be able to bring in the Cardassians, Bajorans, Dominion and Borg and still consider all one consistent timeline.
As long as they find a way to keep it consistent with the other shows I would have no problem with this. The only one I'd really have a problem with there is the Borg, just because working them in would be to much of a stretch. We already one pre-TNG encounter with them in ENT, and I think that is enough.
I believe The Founders had already sent out The Hundred by this time, so there's really no reason the Discovery or Shenzou couldn't run into one of them.
Do we know for sure when first contact occurred between the UFP and the Cardassians or Bajorans?
 
^ Some of the novels place the late 23rd/early 24th century as actual first contact between the UFP and the Cardassians.
 
And further (and now I'm asuming because I haven't seen any ST: D episodes) iot's JUST ONE Tribble sitting there. The big thing about Tribbles in "The Trouble With Tribbles" is their reproduction rate <--- And if it's just the shot they have of it in the ST: D trailers that 'surprise' isn't spoiled.
I wonder if there will be a scene where Lorca either talks about starving his tribble, or describes the daily slaughtering of the offspring. LOL
 
On one of the Facebook DS9 groups, I wrote a version of what I thought the speech could have been:

"Space, an inifinite sea of stars, in which many ports serve as refuge for the tempest-tost. This is the calling of Deep Space Nine, her continuing mission: to provide safe haven to the tired, poor, and huddled masses, and to prosecute their myriad, even conflicting needs, to keep the peace in this corner off the galaxy."

And a VOY one:

"Starfleet's captain's oath begins 'Space the Final Frontier.' Through circumstances beyond our control, a Starfleet and a Maquis crew must cooperate to survive. Together, we'll seek out new life and new civilizations, boldly going where no two crews have gone before."
How's this for DS9:

"It was the dawn of the third age of Bajor– immediately after the Cardassian occupation.

The re-purposing of an abandoned Cardassian ore processing station was a dream given form. Its goal: to prevent another occupation, by establishing a Federation/Bajoran starbase, where Bajoran and non-Bajoran alike can work out their differences peacefully. It's a port of call – home away from home – for diplomats, hustlers, entrepreneurs, and wanderers.

Citizens of multiple worlds, wrapped in two million, five hundred thousand tons of spinning metal . . . all alone in the night.

It can be a dangerous place, but it's our last best hope for peace.

This is the story of the building of the Federation/Bajor alliance. The year is 2369. The name of the place is Deep Space Nine."
 
As long as they find a way to keep it consistent with the other shows I would have no problem with this. The only one I'd really have a problem with there is the Borg, just because working them in would be to much of a stretch...
It would need to be a stand-alone "Rogue One"-style thing where the knowledge of the events of the episode go no farther than the characters directly involved and the audience...

...Oh, and the characters directly involved to to die or be assimilated, and the Federation never learns of their fate.

An episode like that would add to our (fans') knowledge, but it would not add anything to the Star Trek stories moving forward. Picard would be blissfully unaware of the events of that story, even though we fans would know all about it.
 
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That is how I think prequels should be, generally speaking. Narrative wise they should be the what the films would have been had they been written first. To write them otherwise, unless its a flash back where it takes place in the narrative present but presents material from the narrative past, just makes zero sense to me
The trouble with that approach, when applied to TV shows, is that they tend to evolve over time. The TOS, or the TNG or indeed almost any series, that became famous and well loved, are not the same as they started out. Lots of things are refined in the costumes, sets, world building, as they go along that form part of the world we know as theirs. To do a prequel that is entirely consistent with your idea of being written beforehand, you have to forego all that and go back to your pilot, your first draft, and chuck away all the progress you've made since then. That's what I mean when I say that I can't see a prequel ever satisfying you. Your interpretation of 'consistent' is just too rigid.
 
You didn’t answer my other question.

Whoops, sorry. I watch them TNG, DSN, then VOY. It would be interesting to try an exacting chronological rewatch. But becasue the stories take place in such wildly different location and different crews a linear chronological watch might be more confusing. But it might work.

How's this for DS9:

"It was the dawn of the third age of Bajor– immediately after the Cardassian occupation.

The re-purposing of an abandoned Cardassian ore processing station was a dream given form. Its goal: to prevent another occupation, by establishing a Federation/Bajoran starbase, where Bajoran and non-Bajoran alike can work out their differences peacefully. It's a port of call – home away from home – for diplomats, hustlers, entrepreneurs, and wanderers.

Citizens of multiple worlds, wrapped in two million, five hundred thousand tons of spinning metal . . . all alone in the night.

It can be a dangerous place, but it's our last best hope for peace.

This is the story of the building of the Federation/Bajor alliance. The year is 2369. The name of the place is Deep Space Nine."

"This is the dawning of the third age of Bajor, the third age of Baajooor."


The trouble with that approach, when applied to TV shows, is that they tend to evolve over time. The TOS, or the TNG or indeed almost any series, that became famous and well loved, are not the same as they started out. Lots of things are refined in the costumes, sets, world building, as they go along that form part of the world we know as theirs. To do a prequel that is entirely consistent with your idea of being written beforehand, you have to forego all that and go back to your pilot, your first draft, and chuck away all the progress you've made since then. That's what I mean when I say that I can't see a prequel ever satisfying you. Your interpretation of 'consistent' is just too rigid.

I think your statement here is spot on. For me to be satisfied with a Star Trek prequel all the "early installment weirdness" would be the state of things. They would be called Vulcanians, they would have hand lasers, they would call it "Time Warp Factor 5," in an emergency they could blast out of orbit with "rockets," and Spock would crack a smile occasionally. Anything else is not going to let me have my suspension of disbelief. Because "The Cage," for example, should be considered a snap shot of the Star Trek universe at that time. Just as ST, TNG, DSN, VOY are all snap shots of the Star Trek Universe at those times. Instead, Discovery's approach seems to be taking this amorphous idea of "Star Trek" and all its accoutrements, and then using that as the foundation for their series. What that does is just make the "early installment weirdness" stand out in opposition to the Standard Acceptable Franchise.

So no, unless prequel is able to dot all it's "i"s and cross all its "t"s, and look and feel like it actually was a previous part of the story, then I won't be satisfied. Rogue One came pretty damn close, but missed the mark on many points.
 
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Whoops, sorry. I watch them TNG, DSN, then VOY. It would be interesting to try an exacting chronological rewatch. But becasue the stories take place in such wildly different location and different crews a linear chronological watch might be more confusing. But it might work.
It worked alright.

"This is the dawning of the third age of Bajor, the third age of Baajooor."
I'm guessing you didn't get my joke.


I think your statement here is spot on. For me to be satisfied with a Star Trek prequel all the "early installment weirdness" would be the state of things. They would be called Vulcanians, they would have hand lasers, they would call it "Time Warp Factor 5," in an emergency they could blast out of orbit with "rockets," and Spock would crack a smile occasionally. Anything else is not going to let me have my suspension of disbelief. Because "The Cage," for example, should be considered a snap shot of the Star Trek universe at that time. Just as ST, TNG, DSN, VOY are all snap shots of the Star Trek Universe at those times. Instead, Discovery's approach seems to be taking this amorphous idea of "Star Trek" and all its accoutrements, and then using that as the foundation for their series. What that does is just make the "early installment weirdness" stand out in opposition to the Standard Acceptable Franchise.
You do not appear to have any ability to suspend your disbelief. If I'm to take everything you say at face value (and part of me thinks you're just having fun with us, which is fine), then I don't really know how to explain to you that what you're asking for simply does not happen. The level of meticulousness you're demanding would be literally impossible. All TV series have had "early installment weirdness" and it's just a method of working the kinks out of scripts. No one can, or should, be beholden to that. Star Trek is a television show. It's not real life. It has often, frequently, throughout its existence, contradicted itself wildly to a point where I'm not sure how you're able to still be a fan, assuming you really are serious about this and assuming that you apply the same demands to every single episode or film in every single series. This "crossing of i's and dotting of t's" you need in order to be satisfied just isn't ever going to happen, in any franchise, anywhere.
 
I think your statement here is spot on. For me to be satisfied with a Star Trek prequel all the "early installment weirdness" would be the state of things. They would be called Vulcanians, they would have hand lasers, they would call it "Time Warp Factor 5," in an emergency they could blast out of orbit with "rockets," and Spock would crack a smile occasionally. Anything else is not going to let me have my suspension of disbelief. Because "The Cage," for example, should be considered a snap shot of the Star Trek universe at that time. Just as ST, TNG, DSN, VOY are all snap shots of the Star Trek Universe at those times. Instead, Discovery's approach seems to be taking this amorphous idea of "Star Trek" and all its accoutrements, and then using that as the foundation for their series. What that does is just make the "early installment weirdness" stand out in opposition to the Standard Acceptable Franchise.
Whereas most people, especially the creators, look back on those early episodes as, if not missteps, at least displaying teething problems. They had ideas later on that were better, more successful, and that frankly they like more. Those ideas became famous, and became the 'truth' of the franchise to most viewers. The idea of going back to The Cage, or Encounter at Farpoint, and using that as the end goal for a new TV show, without any of the later refinements, just seems unpalatable to most and would lose the majority of viewers in a sort of 'what the hell are Vulcanians' haze of confusion. Most shows go through a moment where they "grow the beard". It's understandable that a prequel writer doesn't want to shave it off again. I'm not saying that you are wrong to want that, I'm just a little sad that you can't enjoy prequels almost by default. But considering you can't accept the Animated Series because of the literal reality of the cartoon presentation, I think I'm probably fighting a losing battle convincing you to accept phasers and tribbles as part of the immutable 'background' of the show ;)
 
I'm guessing you didn't get my joke.
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Also, faith doesn't grumble. It manages.
 
^ Some of the novels place the late 23rd/early 24th century as actual first contact between the UFP and the Cardassians.
I think it would be really interesting to see Cardassia before the military coup and possibly the events leading to it.

And there definitely was some contact between the Federation and Cardassia During TOS era, as that was when Iloja of Prim was exiled from Cardassia to Vulcan.
 
Of all the subgroups of fandom of which I am a part, I think the loneliest will remain 'Faith of the Heart was a perfectly decent choice'
I definitely preferred it over the completely bland and forgettable intros of DS9 and Voyager.
 
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