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James Bond is dead, long live the Kingsman!

Shaka Zulu

Commodore
Commodore
As long as audiences keep flocking to cinemas, Bond will keep coming back as his old self: posh, sexist and reeking of mothballs.

A macho attitude, stiff upper lip and privileged upbringing have characterized Ian Fleming's iconic spy since the first 007 novel, 64 years ago. For decades we've followed the adventures of an Eton scholar who grew up skiing in the Alps and socializing in Europe's richest capitals. We've seen the disrespectful way in which he treats women, we've put up with his Batman-like childhood ghosts, his covert racism and weird taste in beverages.
It's time to call it quits, old chap, there's a new spy in town.

His name is Kingsman - sort of.

His actual name is Gary, or "Eggsy" - a nickname fitted to his working class background, growing up in a council estate in Peckham.

James Bond is dead, long live the Kingsman!

Personally, I think that the Bond franchise has life in it, and there's still a chance that Kingsman: The Golden Circle will flop, but I might be wrong-what do others think of what was said in this article?
 
I grew up on the Roger Moore Bond. I liked the campy coolness of those movies. Craig Daniels is also a good, but a more dour, serious Bond. A future Bond could also favor Millennial Enlightenment. Each decade, and each actor created a different Bond.

Maybe one day I'll read some Ian Fleming to see what the original Bond was all about.
 
I grew up on the Roger Moore Bond. I liked the campy coolness of those movies. Craig Daniels is also a good, but a more dour, serious Bond. A future Bond could also favor Millennial Enlightenment. Each decade, and each actor created a different Bond.

Maybe one day I'll read some Ian Fleming to see what the original Bond was all about.

They're definitely an insight into some very outdated attitudes, although the character himself as portrayed on screen often has little in common with the original character other than the surface details. I'd personally say Dalton and Craig come closest between them, Moore being a caricature as much as a portrayal.

I enjoy Bond insofar as it goes, a completely unrealistic pastiche but entertaining of spywork, written by a mediocre author who knew exactly how to tap into juvenile male fantasies because by writing it he was expressing his own. On balance though I would rather read about George Smiley.
 
Bond OO7 still works for me. The box office confirms it is alive and well. Kingsman is enjoyable too.
 
But how could two franchises with different approaches to the same genre possibly both succeed?! Don't they know there's always only one way to do things?
 
The sheer obsolescence of the whole Bond concept was lampshaded in-universe in GoldenEye when M called him out as a "sexist, misogynist dinosaur, a relic of the Cold War."

And the audiences continue to cheer him on! :p

Kor
 
James Bond is dead, long live the Kingsman!

[...]and there's still a chance that Kingsman: The Golden Circle will flop, but I might be wrong-what do others think of what was said in this article?
$414m box office for the original and the sequel tracking to out perform it's predecessors opening weekend, I'm afraid that Eggsy and his ilk will be around for a while longer

Hugo - There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.
 
I'm a big Bond fan from the original novels who grew steadily more disillusioned with the screen versions. They eventually became indistinguishable from the numerous movie 'tributes' and pastiches that they inspired with wacky gadgets, ridiculous plots and over the top ridiculousness.

I've not watched Kingsman, equating it with something like the Coburn 'Flint' films, but my son says it's worth checking out, so I'll give it a try.

Overall, however, I'm pretty sure I'll be happier with Bond - I'm not expecting Le Carré, but the return to a more grounded, more literary accurate Bond in Casino Royale produced probably my favourite Bond movie, displacing From Russia With Love.

People that discovered Bond from Moonraker at the cinema may well see things differently.
 
I am not a fan of Craig and his Bond movies, where he is in every movie a roque agent.
My wife and watch all the Bond movies within a year or so, and every Bond actor put something special in the role except Craig who's more like a copy of Dalton.
 
I am not a fan of Craig and his Bond movies, where he is in every movie a roque agent.
My wife and watch all the Bond movies within a year or so, and every Bond actor put something special in the role except Craig who's more like a copy of Dalton.
That's a viewpoint I didn't expect !

Dalton's always seemed a bit wooden to me. I appreciated his bond going in a more serious direction after the mostly horrible Moore films, but I didn't feel he had the ability to pull it off.

Craig's a much better actor who put in layers of pain and anguish, plus unexpected humanity.

Craig's in the top flight of Bonds, Dalton near the bottom.
 
That's a viewpoint I didn't expect !

Dalton's always seemed a bit wooden to me. I appreciated his bond going in a more serious direction after the mostly horrible Moore films, but I didn't feel he had the ability to pull it off.

Craig's a much better actor who put in layers of pain and anguish, plus unexpected humanity.

Craig's in the top flight of Bonds, Dalton near the bottom.

I love Craig's version for the same reasons that you do, and no, I don't think that he's as rouge as people make him out to be, just an agent with a different way of accomplishing things. But I also loved Dalton's version as well, and wished that it would continue.
 
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I should probably point out that I would have liked another Dalton film or two - although he didn't impress me particularly, overall the films were miles better than the ones that came before.
 
As has already been menntioned the box office says otherwise. Bond has been going for over 55 years at the cinema. How many of us will likely go see Bond 25 in 2019? And I wouldn't be surprised if they try and get Bond 26 ready for release in 2022.
 
Bond will continue. The reset 'enabled' by the Bourne franchise success has given it a new lease of life, ironically closer to its own roots. If the market shifts, it'll no doubt adapt again.

As long as it delivers some decent movies, there's little to worry about.
 
I grew up on the Roger Moore Bond. I liked the campy coolness of those movies. Craig Daniels is also a good, but a more dour, serious Bond. A future Bond could also favor Millennial Enlightenment. Each decade, and each actor created a different Bond.

Maybe one day I'll read some Ian Fleming to see what the original Bond was all about.

The books were written in another time and age. To say they are sexist and racist and homophobic - that's underplaying it...

I had to look up "millennial enlightenment" - some sites made good points about the Millennial generation and, certainly, the "entitlement" claim is often wrongly used... But I wouldn't equate them with the Silent Generation, since Gen X gets overlooked from as much as Silent had.

Having said that, they're still worth a read for other than historical reasons of the sort of entertainment people liked. Which isn't to say they all liked all the _isms and _phobias, but enjoyed the bigger picture of espionage, exotic locales, antagonists, and so on. If the _isms don't appall you, that is.

Moore was great - he still had the Bond motif, but added to it with a sense of humor, though that didn't always hold up there's a lot that works and feels right. Even as an adult. I still feel The Spy Who Loved Me and For Your Eyes Only are his best works, as is most of Live and Let Die, and that his stuff from the 80s is generally stronger than most of his 70s films. John Glen was amazing as a director, too...

Dalton was, at the time, closest in having the films feel like the novels - right down to some politically incorrect sexist scenes. Being true to the feel of the novels can be done without the racism, but sexism is unavoidable. Enemy organizations do train and use women as objects to lure men, and on the flip side Dalton did the same thing against Kara in "The Living Daylights", in ripping off her clothes, to distract. Compared to decades of Bond getting yet another STD from yet another girl, we finally have Bond using his wits instead of his smaller head. Shame Dalton didn't get a third outing but that was due to the lawsuit.

Brosnan - his is the only era I just can't care about. His era is too silly, too pastiche, too hollow, too 4th wall self-lampooning, all almost as bad as "Diamonds are Forever" and "You Only Live Twice" were. Brosnan deserved better, especially as "Die Another Day" started out with something that felt like Brosnan would finally get a strong, robust script that would even make amends for "Goldeneye"'s flop - and keep in mind "Goldeneye" was riding off the end of the lawsuit and people wanting new Bond... Anyway, DAD started out with a TON of potential, but then they throw it all away to make a movie that ends up being even more laughable than "Moonraker". At least "Moonraker" knew they had to be better than the book since the book involved one tiny rocket but "Moonraker"doesn't go over the top until the end. DAD goes off the wall and only gets worse. Now Craig's era could take what DAD threw away and remake it into something worthwhile... But Brosnan, who - when given good material - really sells Bond (e.g. "Tomorrow Never Dies", in one of the few scenes that's even remotely good, when coldly killing the would-be assassin (Vincent Schiavelli). That scene is a standout and is very Bondian. Pity the rest of the movie was little more than just a mindless romp with pastiche, populist Bill Gates jokes and stunts even TV shows like Knight Rider did 15 years earlier (and more effectively)... Brosnan did get a raw deal :( , though they needed to do a retake of his gunbarrel sequence since he doesn't duck or even make a stance... (that DutchBondFan guy on youtube starts his clips with all the actors walking across the screen, you'll see what I'm referring to very quickly like this one.)
 
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