Kelvin Timeline all but confirmed

[CorporalClegg]

Legal tablet style personal interfaces predate TNG--or even TOS for that matter.

But it's like the communicator/cellphone myth. In either case. the result was due to the natural functional/practical, technological evolution and not because it was on Star Trek.

 

[dahj]

I'd say the PADD (introduced in TNG)

I think it's impossible for kids today not to shout at the screen at those scenes with 15 different pads on the table. Just cycle through the files and apps, silly. And turn on the wifi so you can download the file to your pad and not have someone hand you yet another one for no reason, grandpa.

 

[BillJ]

I agree. And I'm not talking about (and I don't think you are, either) the look, the props, or the SFX -- all of which are superficial and not terribly important to overall storytelling.

The actors, look, the props and the SFX are all part of the package for me. They are part of what made the original Star Trek the "lightning caught in a bottle". The pakage is what caught my imagination.

Discovery's 23rd century can never be that 23rd century, no matter how hard they try. I feel the same way about New Voyages/Phase II and Continues. It isn't fair to hold any of them to that standard.

I want something that is fun and entertaining. That is the standard by which I will judge the new show.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

The actors, look, the props and the SFX are all part of the package for me. They are part of what made the original Star Trek the "lightning caught in a bottle". The pakage is what caught my imagination.

Discovery's 23rd century can never be that 23rd century, no matter how hard they try. I feel the same way about New Voyages/Phase II and Continues. It isn't fair to hold any of them to that standard.

I want something that is fun and entertaining. That is the standard by which I will judge the new show.

And that's fine, but I'm not counting the props, sets, and SFX when it comes to the overall story-telling feeling dated. TNG certainly has more modern-looking effects and props than TOS, but I think the overall feel of the stories of TNG are still more dated than TOS.

For example, no one would say that the 1950s film Forbidden Planet has good special effects compared to today's special effects. They may have been good for the 1950s, but not today. However, as a sci-fi film, it holds up extremely well today and its story does not feel dated -- old-fashioned effects and all.

When I watch Forbidden Planet, I don't care what the effects are like. I just get into the story. The same goes for watching TOS today; The TOS effects, sets, and props might be cheesy by today's standards, but I just ignore them and get into the story.

While I generally enjoy TNG, and think TNG's props, sets, and SFX in general are better than TOS, I find it harder to get into a TNG story because of its (as I previously mentioned) "affected preachiness" that often makes me roll my eyes.

 

[Kor]

People keep saying "it's not the 1960s anymore."

That's true. But... considering the massive popularity of sleek 1960s mid-century modern influences in real-life architecture and interior design for the last several years, I think it would have been quite plausible for ST-Disc to ride the coattails of that trend and incorporate more of that aesthetic into the show's visual designs.

Kor

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

People keep saying "it's not the 1960s anymore."

That's true. But... considering the massive popularity of sleek 1960s mid-century modern influences in real-life architecture and interior design for the last several years, I think it would have been quite plausible for ST-Disc to ride the coattails of that trend and incorporate more of that aesthetic into the show's visual designs.

Kor

I'd love to see what the "U.S.S. Eames" (after Charles and Ray Eames) would look like.

Mid-century modern looks good whether it's 1955 or 2255!

 

[Nyotarules]

Yes, you're right. All they need are some massive tos fans in the design team. I like the bridge and the hand props. They just need some more work on the ships and uniforms. I'll forgive the Klingon if they do that.

Did you forgive the Klingons of TMP?

 

[Noname Given]

I could be wrong, but I always thought they were teletype sound effects.

They had Teletype - Card Reader feed - and Tape Drive spooling noises mixed into the various TOS 'computer' sounds at times across the three seasons.

[In 1981 when I enrolled in University to go for my computer science (programming) degree - the computer center I had access too was still using a lot of that mainframe technology.]

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

They had Teletype - Card Reader feed - and Tape Drive spooling noises mixed into the various TOS 'computer' sounds at times across the three seasons.

Yes, but see my post above about the film Forbidden Planet, and how that is still a great film today despite the (what some might call "cheesy") effects.

When I watch TOS, I consider the teletype sounds to be an artifact of the 1960s TV production -- but NOT an artifact of the in-universe ship.

I may have a tough time explaining the distinction, but there is a distinction. I can easily look past an artifact of the timeframe and available technology of a TV production and basically ignore it.

It's the same reason I never really cared that TMP totally changed the look of the Klingons. The look of the TOS KLingons was just an artifact of the limitations upon the TV production, so when TMP (which did not have the same limitations) decided that Klingons magically would look different, that did not affect my enjoyment of TOS TV episodes that featured Klingons.

In my mind's eye that was watches the shows as an in-universe piece of fiction, TMP Klingons and TOS Klingons were the same, and I could easily ignore the real-world difference.

Similarly in my mind's eye that watches the shows as an in-universe piece of fiction, the TOS Enterprise has advanced computers, even if in the real world they make teletype sounds.

 

[Ensign Ogahd Ahmganadai]

Yes, but see my post above about the film Forbidden Planet, and how that is still a great film today despite the (what some might call "cheesy") effects.

When I watch TOS, I consider the teletype sounds to be an artifact of the 1960s TV production -- but NOT an artifact of the in-universe ship.

I may have a tough time explaining the distinction, but there is a distinction. I can easily look past an artifact of the timeframe and available technology of a TV production and basically ignore it.

It's the same reason I never really cared that TMP totally changed the look of the Klingons. The look of the TOS KLingons was just an artifact of the limitations upon the TV production, so when TMP (which did not have the same limitations) decided that Klingons magically would look different, that did not affect my enjoyment of TOS TV episodes that featured Klingons.

In my mind's eye that was watches the shows as an in-universe piece of fiction, TMP Klingons and TOS Klingons were the same, and I could easily ignore the real-world difference.

Similarly in my mind's eye that watches the shows as an in-universe piece of fiction, the TOS Enterprise has advanced computers, even if in the real world they make teletype sounds.

This is what I was saying in my earlier post. Even as a child, when I watched TOS, I assumed that if I was "really there", it would look more real. I felt like this was the "dramatization" of what it "really looked like".

 

[ominous_thunk]

This is what I was saying in my earlier post. Even as a child, when I watched TOS, I assumed that if I was "really there", it would look more real. I felt like this was the "dramatization" of what it "really looked like".

Same here. Just like I would assume that I wouldn't see the occasional anachronistic 20th century wristwatch or microphone boom, if I were "really there."

 

[Ensign Ogahd Ahmganadai]

Same here. Just like I would assume that I wouldn't see the occasional anachronistic 20th century wristwatch or microphone boom, if I were "really there."

When I read TOS novels as a teenager, I would picture the Klingons with "modern" brow ridges but "period specific" gold uniforms. I would picture the bridge looking more like grey steel than white-ish plywood. Among many other "real-world upgrades" I would mentally graft onto it.

 

[Mr Awe]

I may have a tough time explaining the distinction, but there is a distinction. I can easily look past an artifact of the timeframe and available technology of a TV production and basically ignore it. Similarly in my mind's eye that watches the shows as an in-universe piece of fiction, the TOS Enterprise has advanced computers, even if in the real world they make teletype sounds.

It's perfectly clear what you mean, and I agree. You're getting down to the aspects that are really important to a story. The SFx, props, sets, etc are all window dressing. They'll keep updating the window dressing but it's really the stories that are important.

I also agree with the notion that TNG has aged particularly badly.

 

[Ensign Ogahd Ahmganadai]

It's perfectly clear what you mean, and I agree. You're getting down to the aspects that are really important to a story. The SFx, props, sets, etc are all window dressing. They'll keep updating the window dressing but it's really the stories that are important.

I also agree with the notion that TNG has aged particularly badly.

Whenever I say something to this affect to a fan who can't separate visuals from canon, they always talk about the craftsmanship that went into building those sets and designing those visuals and how dare I say they don't matter.

 

[BillJ]

Whenever I say something to this affect to a fan who can't separate visuals from canon, they always talk about the craftsmanship that went into building those sets and designing those visuals and how dare I say they don't matter.

I tend to think they matter. Why would you simply throw away the work of so many people? They were just as important in selling the universe as the writers.

 

[Nerys Myk]

tend to think they matter. Why would you simply throw away the work of so many people? They were just as important in selling the universe as the writers.

But to continue to sell the universe you have be willing to update, modernize and even discard those things. I'm sure the people who did the work would be the first to do so.

 

[cultcross]

I tend to think they matter. Why would you simply throw away the work of so many people? They were just as important in selling the universe as the writers.

They matter to that show absolutely - but there's lots of people whose talents go into this show - to me, their work matters more to new stuff than copying the work that's gone before.

 

[BillJ]

But to continue to sell the universe you have be willing to update, modernize and even discard those things. I'm sure the people who did the work would be the first to do so.

Yes, but Discovery seems to have thrown most everything away wholesale. Updating is one thing, but there's nothing there that reminds me of TOS beyond the props.

YMMV.

 

[JD]

I really don't care that this doesn't look like TOS, I never expected it to, and to be completely honest, I never wanted it to.

There's a reason why TOS is considered one of the greatest TV shows of all time and the others are not.

I've got to disagree, I've seen TNG on just as many best of lists.

Really?

I'd say the PADD (introduced in TNG had a pretty big impact on modern computing treads and development.

When Apple created the IPAD, the originally wanted to call it the PADD, specifically named after TNG's PADDs.
I've seen things from TNG cited as influences on science and technology at least as often as TOS.

And that's fine, but I'm not counting the props, sets, and SFX when it comes to the overall story-telling feeling dated. TNG certainly has more modern-looking effects and props than TOS, but I think the overall feel of the stories of TNG are still more dated than TOS.

For example, no one would say that the 1950s film Forbidden Planet has good special effects compared to today's special effects. They may have been good for the 1950s, but not today. However, as a sci-fi film, it holds up extremely well today and its story does not feel dated -- old-fashioned effects and all.

When I watch Forbidden Planet, I don't care what the effects are like. I just get into the story. The same goes for watching TOS today; The TOS effects, sets, and props might be cheesy by today's standards, but I just ignore them and get into the story.

While I generally enjoy TNG, and think TNG's props, sets, and SFX in general are better than TOS, I find it harder to get into a TNG story because of its (as I previously mentioned) "affected preachiness" that often makes me roll my eyes.

I've rewatched TNG quite a bit recently and I never really felt that the storytelling felt that dated. Sure there might be a few episodes that haven't aged well, but the same can be said for TOS. I'd say episodes like Chain of Command, Best of Both Worlds, Measure of a Man, Darmok, ect hold up just as well today as they did when they aired.
When it comes to doing watching the episodes today, I would watch those episodes long before I would watch even the best of TOS, and I have many times. I like TOS, but to me TNG is still the most Star Trek of all the series.

 

[Mr Awe]

Whenever I say something to this affect to a fan who can't separate visuals from canon, they always talk about the craftsmanship that went into building those sets and designing those visuals and how dare I say they don't matter.

I tend to think they matter. Why would you simply throw away the work of so many people? They were just as important in selling the universe as the writers.

I think it matters to a degree. You can enjoy those things while you're watching. But, the stories are more important. You need a good story to stand the test of time.

I can watch a production with low quality SFx, props, etc by today's standards, but if the story is good I'll still enjoy it. However, you can have the best props, sets, SFx, etc, but if the story isn't good, it's not watchable for me. YMMV.