Voyager season 4

[cosmic mouse]

I just watched the Year of Hell two-parter (the Kremin, or at least Annorax and that dude at the beginning, are real a-holes imo, but this was a great ep), so I'm 9 episodes into season 4... So far I'm liking it, even with the major changes that everyone talks about. I really like Seven of Nine in the episodes I'd seen previously and nothing new I've seen so far has changed that; I have a lot in common with that character (and some in common with Janeway as well- one of those two is my fav character on the show I think).

Anyway, I've liked all of the first nine eps so far. If I had to say I guess Nemesis is my least favorite of them. It was a decent ep for Chak, but I found the lingo cheesy and a little annoying. I still liked this one though; there have been no bad eps yet.
And I can see the beginnings of Seven's character arc, which I understand is the most prominent in the series. (?) I thought The Gift was a really good intro ep for her; sad to see Kes go, but I welcome Seven. In Day of Honor, in particular, you can see her struggle to integrate into the crew. That was a good one for Tom & B'Elanna as well. Raven was great as well; I liked the scenes with Seven and Tuvok in particular (and same goes for Year of Hell actually).

So, anyone feel free to comment, complain, or otherwise carry on about the episodes I've seen, or any future eps in season 4. Fire away!

 

[Lynx]

Season 4 ratings:

Best episode: Nemesis, 4 points
Probably the best Chakotay episode and I just love the twist in the tale.

Worst episodes:
Message In A Bottle, 1 point
Mortal Coil, 1 point
The Gift, 0 points

The rest: Average
Something very important is missing in all of them.

 

[Paul Weaver]

Nemesis is my least favorite of them

Nemesis holds a unique place in my Trek experience - I first watched it in I assume 1997 (maybe 98), at the only Star Trek convention I've been to (Manchester, with Meaney and Beltran). It was a US VHS recording, so NTSC, complete with adverts to fast forward through.

I wasn't impressed, and haven't seen it since. I wonder if it's better than it's eponymous film.

 

[Prax]

I really like Nemesis. I like the weird old English vernacular which isn't that different from soldier lingo today. The ending is really ambiguous. You can't tell what really happened. I think the Vori actually were the "good guys" and the Kradi really were invaders, but they were both not to be trusted.

Chakotay just happened to crash in their warzone, so the Vori conscripted him the way they do their own people.

Also, season 4 must have been particularly rough on the shuttle assembly crew.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

I don't like NEMESIS that much either. It's too dark for VOY (like THE CHUTE in Season 3) and apart from Chakotay the others hardly make an appearance on that one.

Season 4 is really exciting. There's the whole story of Seven of Nine and a new enemy will be introduced in MESSAGE IN A BOTTLE, who are absolutely my fav villains in the entire Trek franchise (closely followed by the Borg). There are very good stories with them thorughout Season 4 - you'll see for yourself. THE KILLING GAME totally rocks in my book.

Almost every ep is interesting in this season ... so enjoy. RETROSPECT is the only one I found a bit ... weird. Other than that, it's a good season.

 

[Kaelef]

I was pleasantly surprised by Nemesis - both the language and the eventual resolution. I just got to Retrospect, which I think was a big misfire. It would've been a much better episode if handled differently. I appreciated the humor in Message in a Bottle, even if the situation was far fetched (certainly a common problem in VOY).

Kes had a lot of potential that was never tapped, so I was sorry to see her go, even if it was clear the writers had lost interest in her quite a while back.

The biggest annoyance thus far with season 4 is a big, sudden change in Janeway's behavior, particularly after Year of Hell. I find myself disagreeing with her more often than not and finding her unreliable, now, which was rarely the case before. I hope that doesn't continue.

 

[cosmic mouse]

Well, seems like there are some fans of Nemesis... I liked it too and really just found the dialect annoying more than anything else.
@Prax I also appreciated the ambiguous ending (I assume you liked it from what you posted). I totally love (intentional) ambiguity in both TV and film since it often serves to engage the viewer's mind and get the viewer thinking. It also doesn't force the intentions of the director/artist on the viewer, which is more in line with static works of art actually. That type of thing is more inherently ubiquitous with those media since there isn't a real linear tale being told.

I was pleasantly surprised by Nemesis - both the language and the eventual resolution. I just got to Retrospect, which I think was a big misfire. It would've been a much better episode if handled differently. I appreciated the humor in Message in a Bottle, even if the situation was far fetched (certainly a common problem in VOY).

Kes had a lot of potential that was never tapped, so I was sorry to see her go, even if it was clear the writers had lost interest in her quite a while back.

The biggest annoyance thus far with season 4 is a big, sudden change in Janeway's behavior, particularly after Year of Hell. I find myself disagreeing with her more often than not and finding her unreliable, now, which was rarely the case before. I hope that doesn't continue.

I think you are a little farther along in season 4 than I am. I haven't yet gotten to Retrospect, but if you prompt me later in the week we can have a discussion about it. Since I just watched Year of Hell I also haven't noticed a real change in Janeway's behavior yet... although during YOH she did seem a little more reactive and emotional than she did previously; I attributed that to the stress she was experiencing during the ep (and the Dr also noted this when he examined her). Maybe there is more to this...

I would also like to comment on Year of Hell, specifically, since I didn't have much time yesterday to post:

I picked up on some of the connections between this ep and Before & After, mainly some of the dialogue (e.g. Paris directly mentions Year of Hell by name at least once in B&A) and actions of the characters (Seven repeating Kes' general actions with regards to the torpedo). Is there any greater connection I missed on first viewing? Is the reason that no one recalls the events with Kes due to time paradox? I assume, in an alternate reality during B&A Annorax was probably mucking about altering future time points anyway... this time shifting business gets confusing after awhile and Voyager seems to touch on this subject frequently.

 

[Sophie74656]

Season 4 is where Voyager becomes much better

 

[Sophie74656]

Well, seems like there are some fans of Nemesis... I liked it too and really just found the dialect annoying more than anything else.
@Prax I also appreciated the ambiguous ending (I assume you liked it from what you posted). I totally love (intentional) ambiguity in both TV and film since it often serves to engage the viewer's mind and get the viewer thinking. It also doesn't force the intentions of the director/artist on the viewer, which is more in line with static works of art actually. That type of thing is more inherently ubiquitous with those media since there isn't a real linear tale being told.



I think you are a little farther along in season 4 than I am. I haven't yet gotten to Retrospect, but if you prompt me later in the week we can have a discussion about it. Since I just watched Year of Hell I also haven't noticed a real change in Janeway's behavior yet... although during YOH she did seem a little more reactive and emotional than she did previously; I attributed that to the stress she was experiencing during the ep (and the Dr also noted this when he examined her). Maybe there is more to this...

I would also like to comment on Year of Hell, specifically, since I didn't have much time yesterday to post:

I picked up on some of the connections between this ep and Before & After, mainly some of the dialogue (e.g. Paris directly mentions Year of Hell by name at least once in B&A) and actions of the characters (Seven repeating Kes' general actions with regards to the torpedo). Is there any greater connection I missed on first viewing? Is the reason that no one recalls the events with Kes due to time paradox? I assume, in an alternate reality during B&A Annorax was probably mucking about altering future time points anyway... this time shifting business gets confusing after awhile and Voyager seems to touch on this subject frequently.

Have you seen The Gift? If not, once you do I will tell you my thoughts on the Before and After/Year of Hell thing.

 

[cosmic mouse]

Have you seen The Gift? If not, once you do I will tell you my thoughts on the Before and After/Year of Hell thing.

Yes, I have seen The Gift... and loved it. It was a great ep to introduce Seven and a good ep all around imo. Please expound on the details re: B&A though because I find it difficult to pick up on all the details in most of these eps on one initial viewing (and in the midst of a bunch of other eps).



Also, I have time to post on two more right now before I have to go teach a class-

Revulsion
I liked this ep overall, but my favorite parts actually had to do with the subplots rather than the main topic at hand (I found the arrogant and prejudiced hologram effective, but bothersome for some reason. Probably just my intolerance for... intolerance.). I liked the advancement of relationship between Tom and B’Elanna; it seems to be well-thought out and mostly realistic/believable because the TPTB are taking incremental steps instead of making a more pronounced, sudden move between the two of them. I like how B’Elanna seems uncomfortable letting herself feel what she feels (or letting herself communicate and act on those feelings) since it makes it feel more genuine. I also liked the scenes between Seven and Harry and Harry still is my least favorite character (though I do like him), but I think some of this interaction served to give the viewer more insight into his behavior, so to speak. I also liked Seven’s deadpan humor and reaction to his emotional turmoil. She cracks me up in a way that I would crack myself up. It’s part of the reason why I like her character.


Scientific Method
This ep touched on the field that I work in actually (medical research), although the alien perpetrators here obviously had no remedial education on research ethics, so I’m glad they got shut down by Janeway. This was also the ep that I noticed Mulgrew looking a little heavier due to having quit cigarettes (someone mentioned that in the season 3 thread). She was supposed to be in pain for most of the ep, so at first I didn’t pick up on it due to her makeup and acting, but you can sort of see it in her face. And in the next ep her hair is much shorter. Meaningless observation #347 I guess… (and, yes, I used the 47 on purpose there).

 

[Sophie74656]

Yes, I have seen The Gift... and loved it. It was a great ep to introduce Seven and a good ep all around imo. Please expound on the details re: B&A though because I find it difficult to pick up on all the details in most of these eps on one initial viewing (and in the midst of a bunch of other eps).

So..in Before and After Kes was affected by radiation from an undetonated torpedo durring the Year of Hell in that timeline. In the "real" timeline she left before Voyager encountered the Krenim so she never was infected with the radiation. Therefore Before and After never actually happened.

 

[Lynx]

Well, seems like there are some fans of Nemesis... I liked it too and really just found the dialect annoying more than anything else.
@Prax I also appreciated the ambiguous ending (I assume you liked it from what you posted). I totally love (intentional) ambiguity in both TV and film since it often serves to engage the viewer's mind and get the viewer thinking. It also doesn't force the intentions of the director/artist on the viewer, which is more in line with static works of art actually. That type of thing is more inherently ubiquitous with those media since there isn't a real linear tale being told.



I think you are a little farther along in season 4 than I am. I haven't yet gotten to Retrospect, but if you prompt me later in the week we can have a discussion about it. Since I just watched Year of Hell I also haven't noticed a real change in Janeway's behavior yet... although during YOH she did seem a little more reactive and emotional than she did previously; I attributed that to the stress she was experiencing during the ep (and the Dr also noted this when he examined her). Maybe there is more to this...

I would also like to comment on Year of Hell, specifically, since I didn't have much time yesterday to post:

I picked up on some of the connections between this ep and Before & After, mainly some of the dialogue (e.g. Paris directly mentions Year of Hell by name at least once in B&A) and actions of the characters (Seven repeating Kes' general actions with regards to the torpedo). Is there any greater connection I missed on first viewing? Is the reason that no one recalls the events with Kes due to time paradox? I assume, in an alternate reality during B&A Annorax was probably mucking about altering future time points anyway... this time shifting business gets confusing after awhile and Voyager seems to touch on this subject frequently.

I love the dialect!
I'm toying with the idea to move to the US or Canada, buy some land, create an own state where the Vori language would be the official language of the state.

Yes, I have seen The Gift... and loved it.

How can you? It's horrible and disgusting.

 

[Sophie74656]

How can you? It's horrible and disgusting.

it's called an opinion

 

[cosmic mouse]

So..in Before and After Kes was affected by radiation from an undetonated torpedo durring the Year of Hell in that timeline. In the "real" timeline she left before Voyager encountered the Krenim so she never was infected with the radiation. Therefore Before and After never actually happened.

Ah, yes, I think on some level I understood that... with Annorax messing around the way he was is a wonder half the events in previous episodes weren't erased somehow. Although by the end of YOH even that was altered (I guess that was the only way Voyager could have escaped intact)...

How can you? It's horrible and disgusting.

Well, probably because my name is not Lynx.

 

[Sophie74656]

Ah, yes, I think on some level I understood that... with Annorax messing around the way he was is a wonder half the events in previous episodes weren't erased somehow. Although by the end of YOH even that was altered (I guess that was the only way Voyager could have escaped intact)...

they might have been...but we wouldn't know. Once the timeship was destroyed everything went back to the way it was supposed to be.

Annorax is one of those bad guys you sympathise with, which I always find interesting. He's not really a bad guy, just someone who lost his love and is doing whatever he can to get her back.

 

[cosmic mouse]

Annorax is one of those bad guys you sympathise with, which I always find interesting. He's not really a bad guy, just someone who lost his love and is doing whatever he can to get her back.

This is true, although his failings and lack of strength caused him to take out half the galaxy while trying to recreate that which cannot be. For that he just appears weak and vindictive- until the events were altered. I despised him (and the helmsman Janeway communicated with at the beginning) until I got most of the way through the ep. Until the finale I was preparing for the Krenim to be my least favorite D-quadrant aliens....

 

[Sophie74656]

This is true, although his failings and lack of strength caused him to take out half the galaxy while trying to recreate that which cannot be. For that he just appears weak and vindictive- until the events were altered. I despised him (and the helmsman Janeway communicated with at the beginning) until I got most of the way through the ep. Until the finale I was preparing for the Krenim to be my least favorite D-quadrant aliens....

You can say that he didn't actually kill anyone. But he was definately blinded by his desire to "restore" his wife. He restored, what was it 97% of the imperium, but wasn't happy with that because his wife wasn't among those restored. Though I can understand his desire to get her back.

Side note...if you like the Krenim, they're in the newer relaunch novels.

 

[cosmic mouse]

I love the dialect!
I'm toying with the idea to move to the US or Canada, buy some land, create an own state where the Vori language would be the official language of the state.

Also... Lynx, are you familiar with the State of Jefferson? That might make a good site for your dialect to take hold...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)

 

[Paul Weaver]

take out half the galaxy while trying to recreate that which cannot be

Why do I think of British politics

How can you? It's horrible and disgusting.

Too much Kes, not enough Kes++

 

[Lynx]

Also... Lynx, are you familiar with the State of Jefferson? That might make a good site for your dialect to take hold...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)

Yes! I fathom!
I can glimpse the gloried and brightly soon-after for Vori speech in the State of Jefferson!