The Defenders--Marvel/Netflix

[JD]

Well, my plan to watch only one or two episodes failed miserably, I ended up watching four.
I'm really enjoying it so far, they've done a really good job of melding all four shows together and creating a cohesive whole out it. I love how before they meet up they seemed to be specifically shooting each character's scenes in the style their shows were done in.
After all of the reactions I've seen I had been expecting to loath Iron Fist, but so far he hasn't been bad.
Sigourney Weaver has been really good as Alexandra so far.
There is one thing I'm not real clear on at this point:
E

Spoiler: Elektra

Is Elektra herself with no memory, or is The Black Sky a totally seperate entity that is just inhabiting her body?

 

[tenmei]

The former.

 

[jbny67]

After all of the reactions I've seen I had been expecting to loath Iron Fist, but so far he hasn't been bad.

Yeah, the whole Danny Rand hate thing is so overblown. The character worked very well in this and Finn Jones did a pretty good job.
That's a good thing considering the story leaned on the Danny Rand character pretty heavily.

Watched the whole thing. Loved it.
Got a good laugh at the Foggy joke mentioned above as well as Foggy's Super Joan Jett line.

Spoiler: Character Fate

So, Matt's alive. No surprise there.
I have a feeling we'll see Electra & Gao again as well.

 

[Christopher]

Binged the whole thing today.

Spoiler: The whole thing

I think Danny was still an arrogant, entitled, self-centered fool, but the story needed him to be. His insistence on going it alone put him at odds with the others, which led to him being captured, and then when fighting Elektra, he was too dumb to realize he was playing right into her hands. Maybe that's the reason he didn't outgrow his arrogance in his own show -- because it was still needed for this one.

I was upset with them bringing in Sigourney Weaver to be the big bad when Madame Gao should've been the one, but it turned out to be kind of a fakeout. I guess I should've known they couldn't afford Weaver for all 8 episodes, but it was still a huge shock what happened to her. And it turns out that Gao is the last Finger standing at the end (because if Matt got out, then she could've too). So she comes out on top after all.

I was kind of wondering for a moment there if they'd really kill off Daredevil. It seemed unlikely, but it occurred to me they could proceed with a Heroes for Hire team-up with Power Man, Iron Fist, and the Daughters of the Dragon, with Jessica as a no doubt reluctant ally. I guess not, though. Anyway, I'm disappointed we didn't get more Misty/Colleeen interaction to parallel all the Luke/Danny stuff. But at the end there, it looked like Danny might be on the path to adopting a mask and costume to follow in Daredevil's footsteps.

It surprised me that we never got a Claire-Matt interaction to speak of. He's the one who got her into all this to begin with. And I thought the fact that all four of the leads happened to know her already would be noted and remarked on at some point, just for what a coincidence it was.

Was I the only one repeatedly distracted by the fact that Stick's "amputated" right forearm was much longer than his intact left one? That's got to be the most unconvincing stump prosthetic I've ever seen. I know these shows don't have movie-level budget, but today's digital effects should've made it fairly easy to erase a hand. They did it with Misty's whole arm in a few shots. At least they could've done the camera angles better to make the fakery less obvious.

 

[jep316]

I've pointed out before I love how while a gritty series..it exist in the same universe that includes a talking raccoon......But also the fact that for all the drama The Defenders face to themselves and their love ones they are completely clueless that a even greater threat is out there in the form of Thanos and there's nothing they could to do to stop him even if they knew.

 

[Gaith]

So, Christopher/others who've finished it, what did you think overall? Because I've pretty much decided to give this a big ol' skip, and feel just blissfully at peace with the notion. Was there ever any coherent explanation of the The Hand was, or what its goals were? Was it a satisfying story in its own right, or merely an extended tease for Defenders S2 (not to mention the other shows)?

 

[Skipper]

You know people, I really loved the

Spoiler: Thing that I loved

The Jessica "Hero Moment" at the end of episode 4

 

[jbny67]

Was there ever any coherent explanation of the The Hand was, or what its goals were? Was it a satisfying story in its own right

Yes on all counts.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I loved how everybody's introductory sequences felt so perfectly like sequences from their own show.

That Matt survived was hardly surprising considering that they announced Daredevil season 3 a long time ago, but the very end with the reference to "Maggie" (Matt's mother) caught me by surprise. I am hoping for some sort of explanation of how he got out of that pit.

In the comics, Misty's rich benefactor who supplied her with bionic arm was Tony Stark. It makes more sense in this instance to make that benefactor Danny. And very realistic prosthesis are already well established within the MCU. And Misty doesn't need anything nearly as complex as Coulson's arm.

 

[Jono]

I don't really get why the Hand's plan was a major issue.

Spoiler: The plan

Why would removing a few bone do anything? Why were there tremors at all in fact? There wasn't one when the wall exploded/melted when Danny touched it.

On the substance and resurrection why aren't the fingers insane like Ward's dad if they've been using it for centuries to keep around. Plus why did they think Electra would be a blank slate? Was this stuff explained in DD season 2, which I've yet to catch up on?

I actually thought from all their talk that the wall was blocking a path/portal to whatever the city's name is where they came from. They kept talking about going home and that the substance was only located in the realm that city normally sits in.

 

[Venardhi]

Can we, as a society, as a civilization, please finally accept that you can't convincingly hide the fact that someone's hand isn't missing by wrapping it in bloody gauze that sticks exactly hand-length out of their sleeve?

 

[tenmei]

I don't really get why the Hand's plan was a major issue.

Spoiler: The plan

Why would removing a few bone do anything? Why were there tremors at all in fact? There wasn't one when the wall exploded/melted when Danny touched it.

On the substance and resurrection why aren't the fingers insane like Ward's dad if they've been using it for centuries to keep around. Plus why did they think Electra would be a blank slate? Was this stuff explained in DD season 2, which I've yet to catch up on?

I actually thought from all their talk that the wall was blocking a path/portal to whatever the city's name is where they came from. They kept talking about going home and that the substance was only located in the realm that city normally sits in.

Spoiler: The Hand

I'm guessing they hadn't finished exposing the entire dragons graveyard, and that it stretched under all of, or a vast percentage of the city. After all, we know they'd need to accelerate the project and that would alert the authorities, presumably because it would mean an intensive earthquake or numerous smaller ones. I'd guess when the dragon skeletons were removed,it would cause the caverns to collapse and the city to fall into it.

 

[Tosk]

Enjoyed this one quite a bit. Eight episodes felt pretty much perfect to me. Not so few that things were rushed, not so many that they needed to do the mid-season swerve they sometimes do.

Can we, as a society, as a civilization, please finally accept that you can't convincingly hide the fact that someone's hand isn't missing by wrapping it in bloody gauze that sticks exactly hand-length out of their sleeve?

This was a pretty sloppy job. It reminded me of Ash in some parts of Army of Darkness, where the shirt has clearly been specially made to have one longer sleeve.

The annoying thing is, it's super easy to make it look better. I did it for one Halloween. You slope your shoulders so as to raise the "missing" hand, and then pad up the lower shoulder to match the other. A tight-necked undershirt and loose shirt over that is all it takes to hide most signs of what you've done.

 

[Christopher]

I don't really get why the Hand's plan was a major issue.

Spoiler: answers/thoughts

Why would removing a few bone do anything? Why were there tremors at all in fact? There wasn't one when the wall exploded/melted when Danny touched it.

Not just any bones -- dragon bones. Either they're structurally strong enough to hold up the bedrock supporting Manhattan Island, so that removing them would be like... well, like blowing out the support beams of Midland Circle, but for the whole city... or removing them would have some supernatural effect that would disrupt the city's ley lines or some such thing. This definitely could've been explained better, though.

And there wasn't a tremor when Danny opened the wall because the Iron Fist was what was supposed to open the wall. Opening a heavy door with the key it's designed for is naturally going to be less disruptive than trying to open it with a huge explosion.

On the substance and resurrection why aren't the fingers insane like Ward's dad if they've been using it for centuries to keep around.

Maybe they are insane. Look at all the evil they've done. But they've been insane for so long that they've learned to "pass." Lots of psychopaths are good at hiding it.

Plus why did they think Electra would be a blank slate? Was this stuff explained in DD season 2, which I've yet to catch up on?

That is a little vague.

I actually thought from all their talk that the wall was blocking a path/portal to whatever the city's name is where they came from. They kept talking about going home and that the substance was only located in the realm that city normally sits in.

The impression I got was that they believed that K'un Lun was not destroyed but merely rendered inaccessible for longer than a human lifetime, so that if they remained immortal, they would live long enough to eventually return there. Maybe this is something that will come into play in Iron Fist season 2.

 

[Reverend]

So, Christopher/others who've finished it, what did you think overall? Because I've pretty much decided to give this a big ol' skip, and feel just blissfully at peace with the notion. Was there ever any coherent explanation of the The Hand was, or what its goals were? Was it a satisfying story in its own right, or merely an extended tease for Defenders S2 (not to mention the other shows)?

It was certainly *not* an extended tease for a second season, though there are obviously a few character threads that are probably going to be picked up in the next four solo seasons (I won't say what or who's, but one thread in particular is a pretty big one.)
Indeed, for that alone it's probably worth watching if you intend to watch the solo shows, otherwise you might find yourself a bit lost with at least one of them.

Yes, there is a coherent explanation for what The Hand is about, though they leave some of the details deliberately vague (which is actually for the best IMO.)

Whether or not it was a satisfying story on it's own is of course entirely subjective. I personally enjoyed it mostly for the characters and while Weaver's character is no Killgrave or Fisk, she's surprisingly three dimensional. You understand what's driving her and it's not just power for it's own sake.

 

[Skipper]

Spoiler: About the Hand

Spoiler: answers/thoughts

Maybe they are insane. Look at all the evil they've done. But they've been insane for so long that they've learned to "pass." Lots of psychopaths are good at hiding it.

Really, they seemed to me a bunch of high-functioning psychopaths. "We are serving the life itself". No, you build an Evil Criminal Empire because you want to live a little longer.

 

[Christopher]

Spoiler: About the Hand

Really, they seemed to me a bunch of high-functioning psychopaths. "We are serving the life itself". No, you build an Evil Criminal Empire because you want to live a little longer.

Exactly.

Spoiler

They talked about serving life itself, but only where their own five lives were concerned. They didn't care how many other lives they ended in order to prolong their own. That's not serving life, it's hoarding it.

Still, that's not necessarily psychopathy. It could just be out-of-control greed and fear. They found a way to avoid death and would do anything to ensure they held onto it. They wouldn't have to be insane to act like that.

(Of course, psychopathy is not technically insanity, it's a behavioral disorder. "Insane" is no longer used as a medical term, but in legal terms, it means being unable to comprehend reality or the consequences of one's actions sufficiently to stand trial for them. So it would apply more to psychosis or schizophrenia than psychopathy. Psychopaths are aware of the illegality and harmfulness of their actions, they just don't care. So most fictional villains alleged to be "insane," like the Joker, don't really meet the definition.)

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Can we, as a society, as a civilization, please finally accept that you can't convincingly hide the fact that someone's hand isn't missing by wrapping it in bloody gauze that sticks exactly hand-length out of their sleeve?

Maybe it was an homage to all those old kung fu movies with a one-armed swordsman. I think at one point he sheathes his sword behind his back with a bunch of metal scraping noise but wasn't wearing a scabbard. (EDIT: Looked it up Ep 4 right after he meets up with the Defenders)

 

[Reverend]

Spoiler: About the Hand

Really, they seemed to me a bunch of high-functioning psychopaths. "We are serving the life itself". No, you build an Evil Criminal Empire because you want to live a little longer.

Spoiler

I read it being more of a natural result of their extremely long lives.
These people are hundreds, if not *thousands* of years old. They've seen the rise and fall of Empires, the ebb and flow of human migration, the repeated cycles of history of nations making the same mistakes over and over and over again and watch the people around them live and die like mayflies.
That's bound to leave them detached from the suffering they cause, because for them it's a fleeting thing. They've seen it all before and worse, many times over. If they fail, then things will just continue on as they always have, but if they succeed, they could fundamentally alter the course of humanity for all time (or so they believe.) What are the lives of a few hundred here and there who'd only linger on for a few mere decades anyway weighed against eternity?

 

[Jax]

Seen the first 5 episodes and despite a slow start, it's been a fun ride so far. The opening chapter was a little too slow and took the whole concept of setting things up a little too literal, I swear nothing happened. I was starting to feel the same for episode 2 but the last act was the kiss of life required and since then it's been a blast.

I'm loving the chemistry between the gang filled with plenty of good MCU humour & brilliant action scenes as we have come to expect from the Netflix shows. Luke Cage & Iron Fist have good chemistry and makes me look forward to any potential Heroes for Hire show. Iron Fist is a much better character this time around though I still feel the reaction to his debut show last year was extremely harsh & OTT and driven by the whole Asian actor debate rather than the quality of the writing.