Did Picard get Court Martialed after Generations?

[Paradise City]

Or did Riker?

We learnt in season 2 that a court martial is compulsory if a captain loses their ship.

The events surrounding the loss of D where they are destroyed by the tinpot BoP was very farcical.

Picard let an emotionally unstable officer continue to serve whose lapses was instrumental in the kidnapping of the Chief Engineer. This team is too attached to each other for my liking, so it's deskjob for Captain Picard if I'm the one banging the gavel. Instead they get a slick new ship! This would've never have happened under Jellico's watch.

Your thoughts?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

We learnt in season 2 that a court martial is compulsory if a captain loses their ship.

If you're referring to the line in "The Measure Of A Man," then the actual statement is that it is "standard procedure."

That said, yeah I'd think that Picard and Riker both would have to answer for what happened. It seems they were excused, given FC.

 

[Timo]

Since it's pretty odd that court martial would automatically follow from the loss of a ship, with or without preceding inquiry, we might want to speculate that "The Battle" involved special, suspicious circumstances that Louvois just skips in her dialogue with Picard in "The Measure of a Man".

With ST:GEN, we don't have to speculate. An inquiry would reveal the role of "enemy agents" in the loss, quite probably warranting a court martial, if not for anything else, then for clearing LaForge's reputation.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

There would always be an inquiry, but a court martial would only take place if there were charges filed.

 

[Paradise City]

If you're referring to the line in "The Measure Of A Man," then the actual statement is that it is "standard procedure."

That said, yeah I'd think that Picard and Riker both would have to answer for what happened. It seems they were excused, given FC.

Standard procedure implies (to me anyway) that if you are out somewhere on your own and lose the ship you get the court martial. If on the otherhand it's a battle like Wolf 359, they forgo it for obvious reasons.

If it's merely standard procedure, then Picard still merits one, given the circumstances surrounding the ship's destruction at the hands of an inferior BoP. That's gotta demand a few tough questions from the top brass.

 

[Tenacity]

If not for anything else, then for clearing LaForge's reputation.

Assuming they ever figured out the part Geordi's altered visor played in the attack.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

If on the otherhand it's a battle like Wolf 359, they forgo it for obvious reasons.

The captains are dead or assimilated and so can't stand trial?

 

[Vger23]

You could have a "Picard Court Martialed??" thread about every Next Gen movie:

Generations: (covered here)
First Contact: direct violation of orders to stay out of the Borg incursion
Nemesis: sent to a diplomatic meeting with the head of state of another superpower- result of dipliomatic mission is a wrecked starship and a dead head of state I'd imagine there would be SOME inquiry into this one.

 

[USS Firefly]

You could have a "Picard Court Martialed??" thread about every Next Gen movie:

Generations: (covered here)
First Contact: direct violation of orders to stay out of the Borg incursion
Nemesis: sent to a diplomatic meeting with the head of state of another superpower- result of dipliomatic mission is a wrecked starship and a dead head of state I'd imagine there would be SOME inquiry into this one.

And in Insurrection he went against orders from an Admiral

 

[USS Belmont]

That's exactly how I felt. He definitely gets court martialed after every movie

Gen: Loss of his ship
FC: Disobey a direct order
INS: Disobey a direct order, death of a flag officer
Nem: Extensive damage to his ship, loss of a senior staff under his command

 

[Paradise City]

He should've/could've got one for Generations and Insurrection.

Nemesis is on Janeway though. She finally gets her court ma....uh...her comeuppance. Who's idea was it to send 'prise into the heart of Romulan space to met some dodgy unknown who has just seized control? It wasn't Picard's.

FC, he's forgiven. He saves the day in fact. In fact, it's the brass that almost screwed it up and got earth conquered by excluding Picard's input.

I would still set Generations aside as it has just one fiasco after another. Lost LaForge and kept the highly emotional Data on duty whilst the tin top Bop destroyed the ship. OK, they avoided total disaster by saving the planet but there's no flipping the Veridian mayhem into some kind of success.

 

[arch101]

If nobody's written a novel about this yet, then someone should. There's a story here.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

And in Insurrection he went against orders from an Admiral

I finally remembered the quote.

"Battlestar Galactica: The Living Legend: Part 2 (#1.11)" (1978) ... Lt. Starbuck: How can we be accused of violating orders of a man who isn't following orders himself?

Admiral Dougherty may have been following somebody's orders, but if he had lived through Insurrection, the other members of that group would surely have thrown him under the shuttle.

 

[inflatabledalek]

One of my favourite bits in the wonderful insanity that is William Shatner's The Return is when the villains are wondering if Picard is in trouble for the loss of the Enterprise only for one to contemptuously go "Knowing Star Fleet they probably just apologised for giving him a substandard ship".

 

[BigDaveX]

That's exactly how I felt. He definitely gets court martialed after every movie

Gen: Loss of his ship
FC: Disobey a direct order
INS: Disobey a direct order, death of a flag officer
Nem: Extensive damage to his ship, loss of a senior staff under his command

For First Contact, I can see them holding a very brief initial inquiry, then making up some excuse to exonerate Picard, such as his mistakenly interpreting some of the fleet's communications during the initial battle as a distress call.

Insurrection, given that they were still smack dab in the middle of the Dominion War, odds are they just buried the whole thing out of a wish to avoid publicly embarrassing the Federation, and potentially demoralising front-line troops over the loss of healing technology that could have turned the tide of the war.

Nemesis, chances are it'd never get beyond an initial inquiry (if even that), as all it'd take to clear Picard of any major blame would be Donatra sending the Federation a statement that Shinzon had lured the Enterprise there under false pretences and then attacked her with a ship that had roughly triple the defensive and offensive capabilities. The only decision that they'd likely pull Picard up on is his going over to the Scimitar personally instead of sending Worf or Data, and even then I'd imagine he could pull out an excuse such as saying that Worf was occupied dealing with the Reman boarding party, and he assumed Data would be helping Geordi try to restore engine power instead of doing his little Man of Tritanium stunt.

 

[Timo]

Standard procedure implies (to me anyway) that if you are out somewhere on your own and lose the ship you get the court martial. If on the otherhand it's a battle like Wolf 359, they forgo it for obvious reasons.

ST:GEN was a battle. "The Battle" was a battle. Where's the difference?

The only time in recent history that a captain has been brought to court martial over the loss of a ship in battle was the McVay case in WWII, for no obvious reason.

If it's merely standard procedure, then Picard still merits one, given the circumstances surrounding the ship's destruction at the hands of an inferior BoP. That's gotta demand a few tough questions from the top brass.

Why should any of that matter if it indeed is standard procedure? Picard gets squashed by a hundred Borg Cubes, Picard gets toasted by a single old BoP, Picard slams into an asteroid while letting Wesley drive drunk and blindfolded, it's all standard procedure.

If nobody's written a novel about this yet, then someone should. There's a story here.

The Time to... series of novels invented stuff to "explain" why Picard wouldn't be an Admiral already in the aftermath of ST:Insurrection. The very definition of wasted effort - who'd promote somebody who undertook an insurrection?

Who's idea was it to send 'prise into the heart of Romulan space to met some dodgy unknown who has just seized control? It wasn't Picard's.

No, it was Shinzon's. Janeway sent the nearest ship - Shinzon made sure the nearest ship would be the one commanded by Picard, by luring him in with positronic signals.

Insurrection, given that they were still smack dab in the middle of the Dominion War, odds are they just buried the whole thing

If that movie indeed takes place during the war, then there has to be a major whitewash to explain why every single one of our heroes deserted, not only refusing to fight the Dominion but in fact directly aiding and abetting it. As nobody even bothers to mention any signs of an ongoing war, or worries about losses or outcomes, or expresses a desire to contribute, it seems our heroes just plain didn't care.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Paradise City]

ST:GEN was a battle. "The Battle" was a battle. Where's the difference?

Why should any of that matter if it indeed is standard procedure? Picard gets squashed by a hundred Borg Cubes, Picard gets toasted by a single old BoP, Picard slams into an asteroid while letting Wesley drive drunk and blindfolded, it's all standard procedure.

Picard is subject to proceedings as the highest ranking officer on site over the loss of his ship.

And Hanson would've been subject to proceedings as the highest ranking officer on site -- if he had survived Wolf 359.

The common factor is that both are the top men in charge of their respective ships/fleets.

No, it was Shinzon's. Janeway sent the nearest ship - Shinzon made sure the nearest ship would be the one commanded by Picard, by luring him in with positronic signals.

There's no obligation on Janeway to send in the Enterprise into a known hostile power with virtually no info on the new regime.

Things should really proceed along the diplomatic template as presented to us in TUC with a bit of give and take on both sides. And if the Romulans aren't game for that, then those guys just ain't serious.

 

[My Name Was Taken Twice]

I think the line in Measure of a Man can be dismissed as the circumstances of the ship being lost leading to court martial. Sisko obviously wasn't after losing the Defiant and admiral Ross baked him a new ship almost immediately. The end of TVH was far from court procedure also.

The JAG staff would never have sat down if every captain who managed to get to an escape pod in the Dominion war had a trial.

 

[The Wormhole]

Picard and Riker would both be court-martialed over the loss of the Enterprise D. Picard because he is the captain, and is therefore responsible for what goes down on his ship regardless if he's on board or not, Riker because he was the one actually in command at the time the ship went down.

 

[Alpha Romeo]

Court Martial is unlikely. I'd say board of inquiry which would likely lead them back to Georgi's visor which could explain one of the reasons for his implants by the time FC rolled around.