Decker and Ilia Post-TMP

[Shikarnov]

Hi all,

I was just watching Star Trek The Motion Picture with my sons (ages 4 and 3) and my oldest asked what happens to Decker and Ilia after they are absorbed into VGer. And it got me wondering: have there been any books that revisit VGer or if somehow Decker and/or Ilia make any kind of return after TMP (since they were listed "missing" after all)?

TIA

 

[Christopher]

I alluded to this in Ex Machina, but only briefly, in describing the telepathic impressions Spock had gotten from the combined V'Ger-Decker-Ilia entity in the wake of the film.

There's also a brief V'Ger appearance in “A & Ω (Alpha & Omega)” by Derek Tyler Attico in Strange New Worlds 08.

 

[publiusr]

The pair were also going to figure into an early Star Trek II movie treatment, IIRC.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I always assumed that Decker and Ilia's individual identities and consciousness would be no more, once they were absorbed into V'Ger.

 

[Shikarnov]

I alluded to this in Ex Machina, but only briefly, in describing the telepathic impressions Spock had gotten from the combined V'Ger-Decker-Ilia entity in the wake of the film.

There's also a brief V'Ger appearance in “A & Ω (Alpha & Omega)” by Derek Tyler Attico in Strange New Worlds 08.

Thanks! Another Christopher L Bennett book on my reading list. This is going to be a great month, especially with the new Rise of the Federation coming out too.

 

[indianatrekker26]

I recall v'ger being mentioned in star trek Voyager marvel comic.

 

[David cgc]

I recall v'ger being mentioned in star trek Voyager marvel comic.

Right, the "Leviathan" storyline. There as a massive machine/ship that was collecting samples of different life-forms, which may have been somehow related to V'ger (an offshoot of what it became with Decker and Ilia, or another product of the same machine race).

 

[Stevil2001]

"To Wherever" in Star Trek II Short Stories by William Rotsler has some mentions of V'Ger as I recall.

 

[flandry84]

I hope that the story remains unresolved.

 

[Christopher]

I think the idea of V'Ger/Decker/Ilia returning is missing the whole point of TMP's ending. V'Ger had "learned all that was learnable" about our plane of existence and was seeking the means to transcend to higher planes that it could explore. It had no reason to come back after it achieved that; it had outgrown our universe like a butterfly outgrowing its cocoon.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The pair were also going to figure into an early Star Trek II movie treatment, IIRC.

They were also to have been costars in all episodes of "Star Trek: Phase II". Persis Khambatta was already signed to a series contract.

The telemovie script, "In Thy Image" features Will Decker and Ilia and that script transformed into ST:TMP. At the end of "In Thy Image", Decker and "Tasha" (the probe in Ilia's form) seemingly depart with V'ger but suddenly the other members of the landing party find a burnt-out light bee, which had been suspended within the probe, lying on the ground. As they consider the probe's fate, the real Ilia steps out from behind some scenery and is able to rejoin the crew. As Decker appears throughout "Phase II", but no one was sure which script would be Episode 2, a scene would have been written in which Decker is able to return from his journey.

There were tentative plans for a transformed Decker (and Ilia?) and V'ger to meet USS Voyager, but Stephen Collins was contractually obligated to "Seventh Heaven" (then several seasons in) and Persis Khambatta died in August 1998, scuttling those ideas.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I think the idea of V'Ger/Decker/Ilia returning is missing the whole point of TMP's ending. V'Ger had "learned all that was learnable" about our plane of existence and was seeking the means to transcend to higher planes that it could explore. It had no reason to come back after it achieved that; it had outgrown our universe like a butterfly outgrowing its cocoon.

Except that V'ger was wrong about "learning all that was learnable," since it had more to learn from merging with Decker, himself a being from this universe. So, that aspect of the film didn't actually make much sense.

 

[Therin of Andor]

STOP PRESS!: Lieutenant Xon is the feature character in the second story in this month's "Waypoint" comic from IDW (issue #6) by Gabriel Hardman! Will Decker and Ilia are also there. "The Fear: A Star Trek Phase II Story".


Xon in the IDW Waypoint comic by Ian McLean, on Flickr


Xon in the IDW Waypoint comic by Ian McLean, on Flickr


Willard Decker in the IDW Waypoint comic by Ian McLean, on Flickr


Xon and Ilia in the IDW Waypoint comic by Ian McLean, on Flickr

 

[Mage]

I hope that the story remains unresolved.

I agree. Some things should remain mysteries. This is one of them.

 

[Saul]

There were tentative plans for a transformed Decker (and Ilia?) and V'ger to meet USS Voyager, but Stephen Collins was contractually obligated to "Seventh Heaven" (then several seasons in) and Persis Khambatta died in August 1998, scuttling those ideas.

Wow, never heard of that before. Where was it mentioned?

 

[Therin of Andor]

Wow, never heard of that before. Where was it mentioned?

There was weekly feedback filtering through places like UseNet, from contacts at DS9 and Voyager about possible forthcoming episodes, guest actors, areas of possible exploration, upcoming "TV Guide" episode synopses, etc. Some was embellished fan rumour, but some of the posters were connected to the production and much of their "news" ended up being true. I think I recall this snippet ending up in print. It didn't get very far, but someone up high liked the idea of "V'ger meets Voyager". I don't think there was any intention to involve Persis, but the timing of her death was quite close to the release of the Playmates' Ilia Probe action figure (1997) and to the news of this possible future "Voyager" ep.

 

[Ensign_Rowan_McGrath]

Maybe V'Ger came into contact with Q.

 

[MarsWeeps]

I think the idea of V'Ger/Decker/Ilia returning is missing the whole point of TMP's ending. V'Ger had "learned all that was learnable" about our plane of existence and was seeking the means to transcend to higher planes that it could explore. It had no reason to come back after it achieved that; it had outgrown our universe like a butterfly outgrowing its cocoon.

Not necessarily. V'ger had no understanding of emotion so it didn't learn "all that was learnable." As Spock said when he gripped Kirk's hand "This simple feeling...is beyond V'gers comprehension."

By merging with Decker, some type of new life form was created, one that now had a sense of purpose and emotion. One that could continue exploring this universe in a totally new way. Or not.

 

[David cgc]

By merging with Decker, some type of new life form was created, one that now had a sense of purpose and emotion. One that could continue exploring this universe in a totally new way. Or not.

I'd argue that, implicitly, that's what the transition was. The instant Decker is fully digitized and disappears, the effect goes nuts, and begins encompassing the entire V'ger-ship. I read that as, in that first instant where they combined, the new V'ger/Decker/Ilia entity is able to contextualize everything it had observed and recorded in V'ger's travels and now, at last, actually understand it. And, computer-fast, it knows what its next step can be, and how to do it, and sets about to transforming itself into a form capable of exploring another level of reality, just based on the new insight into what it had already seen.

 

[Christopher]

I'd argue that, implicitly, that's what the transition was. The instant Decker is fully digitized and disappears, the effect goes nuts, and begins encompassing the entire V'ger-ship. I read that as, in that first instant where they combined, the new V'ger/Decker/Ilia entity is able to contextualize everything it had observed and recorded in V'ger's travels and now, at last, actually understand it. And, computer-fast, it knows what its next step can be, and how to do it, and sets about to transforming itself into a form capable of exploring another level of reality, just based on the new insight into what it had already seen.

Yeah, that's pretty much what the dialogue made clear. V'Ger needed human emotion and imagination to let it envision where to go next, the higher planes of being that a purely logical being couldn't make the intuitive leap to recognize. (Which kind of implicitly means spiritual planes, some '70s New Age mystical stuff. There was a thread in Decker's character notes that didn't make it into the final film, in which he was very interested in spirituality and consciousness-raising and all that stuff that was faddish in the '70s.)