Discovery at SDCC - Consolidated Thread
- Thread starter RAMA
- Start date
This absolutely sums up the debate for me - they look more like TNG Klingons than the TOS ones ever did, and whether you like the design or not, I really struggle to believe you honestly can't immediately identify them as Klingon. The forehead appliance is right there where it always has been.One of these things is not like the others
It's the one without the forehead appliance
Basicly, @Ovation ,@Nerys Myk and @cultcross just ended this topic.
Can we all just now please move along? Unless kirk55555 needs to still remind us how terrible Discovery is for not pleasing his needs as a fan?
Can we all just now please move along? Unless kirk55555 needs to still remind us how terrible Discovery is for not pleasing his needs as a fan?
One of these things is not like the others
It's the one without the forehead appliance
I never notice that, the TMP Klingon head is pretty different from the rest, the ridge is like directly in the middle, it looks like Spine, the areas to left and right are flat.
I think that was the original intent.
^^^
Are you kidding? The entire tone was different in TNG compared to TOS. We went from better humans in a better Earth (which still used 'Federation Credits' aka money) to Per GR - perfectly well adjusted people who never argued - unless via alien influence - and Earth was now a Utopian society where people just worked to better themselves and didn't even use any form of 'money' any longer.
The Prime Directive was retconned too - it originally ONLY applied to worlds with primitive cultures who had no knowledge of spaceflight or life on other worlds (if either of those conditions weren't met - contact and interaction was fair game in TOS.) In TNG it became "Any alien civilization that isn't a member of the Federation" <--- pretty big retcon there that again, affected the tone and execution of the series.
All this made for very bland character interaction - boring boardroom style conferences - and often a just plain boring show.
You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I remember reading magazines in 1987, building up to the premiere of TNG, and articles saying that dilithium will regenerate itself, Geordi's visor will detect all kinds of forcefields or anomalies that the TOS characters could have been trapped in, a lot of safeguards that essentially took quite a bit of adventure out of the series.
You know, T'kuvma's ridges bear a striking similarity to Kruge's. Coincidence? Probably.One of these things is not like the others
It's the one without the forehead appliance
But in universe TNG was hundred years after TOS, so it makes perfect sense that things have changed. Personally I feel that TNG and TOS are very much alike, and the hundred years gap makes explaining most differences pretty easy. I have harder time reconciling DS9 with TNG, as those happen pretty much concurrently, yet the setting seems many ways quite different.
And if you want to get into the superficial 'tech' changes:
- Suddenly we have a 'Warp 10' speed limit. (in MORE than one TOS episode you had the ship travelling at Warp speeds higher than 10; and in the TOS episode "By Any Other Name" - the Kelvens upgraded both the ship hull and the wap engines to attain much higher speeds - although of course the ship didn't keep those improvements in the end.
- The Galaxy Clas was shown as GREATLY over-classing nearly every ship it encountered (save possibly the Borg). It led to comments like:
Worf: "Their armament couldn't even penetrate our navagation shields"
or this exchange from TNG's "The Wounded" which starts with a Cardassian ship fully firing on the 1701-D:
^^^^
I mean - where is there ANY sort of threat/tension for the Federation. Yes, the Cardassians managed to do minor damage BEFORE the 1701-D's shields went up - after that it's no damage <Yawn> - and Picard's plea is more "Please let me talk to my superiors because if I don't and we keep firing we'll kill you and I don't really want that.."
Makes you wonder just how the Cardassians managed to get the Federation to agree to a treaty (maybe it was teh Federation saying - "hey, we better stop before we commit genocide here."
For me that was a major change/disappointment in that virtually nothing really threatened the 1701-D and the crew was always more concerned about how badly they'd hurt the opponent.
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In the years following TMP but before TSFS, Klingons in the Trek comic books looked exactly like the TMP guys (like in my avatar), as that was the only reference for how Klingons were now supposed to look.
The warp scale itself was redone so that the term "warp 10" designated infinite speed.
Kor
TOS and ENT use a different warp scale from the rest of Star Trek. It's linear rather than logarithmic.
Wasn't that made up just to explain it?
I don't even think it was said in an episode?
I think it comes from the (non-canon) TNG Tech Manual, but it can at least be inferred that the 24th century warp scale is logarithmic given that warp 10 is "infinite speed" and warp 9.9 is considered much faster than warp 9.
Edit: Apparently the TOS/ENT warp scale isn't linear either, but it definitely is different from the TNG warp scale.
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I read that Roddenberry laid down the law when developing TNG. Otherwise we would have gotten ever-increasing warp factor numbers to the point of sounding ridiculous. "Captain, a hostile vessel is approaching at a speed of warp seven hundred fifty two point eight!"
I don't think the concept of warp 10 as infinity was ever explicitly stated until VOY "Threshold," though.
Kor
One of these things is not like the others
It's the one without the forehead appliance
They all look like Klingons to me. I could put up 9 different pics of people from different races and they'd look different but all would be human.