Was Kirk a Bad Friend?

[ZapBrannigan]

You're a career man in Starfleet and really want to make Captain someday. You're working in Engineering and you overlook one task you were supposed to do. Luckily, your friend Jim Kirk comes on duty and finds the mistake in time, so no harm is done. But he writes you up!

Kirk couldn't just close the switch to the atomic matter pile, tell you about it, and cover for you? That's what a buddy would do. Now you've got this on your record and you'll never get promoted.

Also: at the Academy, the line on Kirk was "In his class, you either think or sink!" And that was Kirk's friend talking. You sink? It doesn't sound like Kirk was very nice. With friends like that...

 

[Tenacity]

Kirk didn't write up Ben Finney, he logged that he closed a switch on the atomic pile. Kirk might have logged many things that he did during the course of that duty shift, and it's possible that he didn't know at the time that Finney was the one who left the switch open.

Ben Finney was a fuck up, the world of Star Trek was a better place without him as a Starship captain.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Kirk didn't write up Ben Finney, he logged that he closed a switch on the atomic pile. Kirk might have logged many things that he did during the course of that duty shift, and it's possible that he didn't know at the time that Finney was the one who left the switch open.

I think Kirk said "I logged the mistake, Ben. Blame me, not them." To my lights, that's a write-up. Granted, all we have is after the fact mentions of the incident.

 

[Timewalker]

You're a career man in Starfleet and really want to make Captain someday. You're working in Engineering and you overlook one task you were supposed to do. Luckily, your friend Jim Kirk comes on duty and finds the mistake in time, so no harm is done. But he writes you up!

Kirk couldn't just close the switch to the atomic matter pile, tell you about it, and cover for you? That's what a buddy would do. Now you've got this on your record and you'll never get promoted.

Also: at the Academy, the line on Kirk was "In his class, you either think or sink!" And that was Kirk's friend talking. You sink? It doesn't sound like Kirk was very nice. With friends like that...

Not doing everything according to regulations would have Kirk just as guilty as Finney.

Being a friend also means not letting your friend get away with something that could have life-or-death consequences.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I'll go you one better: you ask your friend Jim Kirk for a ride to your wedding. And you're really in a hurry to get married, for reasons of your own.

Next thing you know, Kirk is fighting you at the altar to try to steal the bride! I'm telling you, he's a bad friend.

 

[Timewalker]

Next thing you know, Kirk is fighting you at the altar to try to steal the bride! I'm telling you, he's a bad friend.

I started writing a fanfic in which he actually does end up with T'Pring.

It's a match made in hell.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Kirk couldn't just close the switch to the atomic matter pile, tell you about it, and cover for you? That's what a buddy would do. Now you've got this on your record and you'll never get promoted.

Yeah, and once it gets on the record that Kirk ignored the error (and it will; of course the computer will log each and every alteration made to its systems), what do you think would happen to HIM?

You're a career man in Starfleet and really want to make Captain someday. You're working in Engineering and you overlook one task you were supposed to do. Luckily, your friend Jim Kirk comes on duty and finds the mistake in time, so no harm is done. But he writes you up!

Of course Kirk logged the incident. That's what he was supposed to do!

It's got nothing to do with being a friend, and everything to do with being a good officer. Kirk's friendship with Finney can wait till they're off duty. ON duty, Kirk has not only the right, but the obligation to record every error his crewmates make - even if it's Finney.

Because if Kirk fails in this, even once, it could mean the destruction of his ship and everyone on it. Finney made that mistake once, he can do it again. You can't just let that go.

Edit: Ninja'd by @Timewalker...

 

[Gary Mitchell]

Was Kirk a bad friend?

Well, I'd have to say yes.

 

[MANT!]

Well, I'd have to say yes.

well it's not like you are impartial towards this particular question.

 

[Gary Mitchell]

I just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in...the 2 cents which Kirk was happy to put over my eyes.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Kirk WOULD have been a bad friend if he'd let Finney get away with making the error. Real friends don't do that, they help you own up to what you've done.

 

[DonIago]

Kirk was a bad friend, but he was a good captain.

I suppose Wesley sold his friends down the river too.

 

[Timewalker]

Kirk was a bad friend, but he was a good captain.

I suppose Wesley sold his friends down the river too.

Would you have any respect for a leader who let friendship come before fixing a screwup? Think of this in RL terms, and ask yourself if you'd feel the same way if Kirk were a cop, a doctor, or someone with access to the nukes.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Would you have any respect for a leader who let friendship come before fixing a screwup? Think of this in RL terms, and ask yourself if you'd feel the same way if Kirk were a cop, a doctor, or someone with access to the nukes.

That's right, but as Donlago was saying, a good officer is not a good friend.

In the RL workplace, there are "company men" (not all of them bosses) who put the smallest policy and procedure above friendship and "quality of life" for their coworkers. That's good for getting things done, but it can be terribly annoying.

And I feel like the whole Vulcan wedding incident is falling through the cracks here. The way I heard it, Kirk was trying to beat Spock up in front of everybody!

 

[DonIago]

Would you have any respect for a leader who let friendship come before fixing a screwup? Think of this in RL terms, and ask yourself if you'd feel the same way if Kirk were a cop, a doctor, or someone with access to the nukes.

Er? My whole point was that Kirk put the captaincy first. Which is what he should be doing.

Anyone who tries to play the Friendship Card to cover for the fact that they're screwing up a job is taking advantage and isn't themselves being a good friend.

I had a friend in high school who would call me asking for the answers to homework, and while hundreds of lives weren't at stake, I eventually had to tell him that I wasn't comfortable helping him cheat.

 

[captainkirk]

Friends don't let friends drink and drive, and they don't let friends put the lives of 400 people at risk either. Kirk had no idea Finney would go nuts, he just did what he was supposed to do. Let me ask a different question: If you made the mistake Finney made, and your friend fixed it for you but didn't report it, would you be happy and forget the incident happened, or would you feel guilty at having made a mistake and tell your superiors?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

If you made the mistake Finney made, and your friend fixed it for you but didn't report it, would you be happy and forget the incident happened, or would you feel guilty at having made a mistake and tell your superiors?

Honestly, I would thank my buddy and make a huge effort to stay sharp and vigilant at my job. If he covered for me, I wouldn't repay him by turning us both in.

And of course Kirk did the right thing, the best thing, whatever it cost Finney. It just wasn't an act of friendship from Finney's point of view.

Playing by the rules is a big part of what got Kirk-prime so far in Starfleet. But I wonder if "Kirk" of the JJ-verse would have covered for Finney rather than serve the higher needs of the ship.

 

[captainkirk]

Honestly, I would thank my buddy and make a huge effort to stay sharp and vigilant at my job. If he covered for me, I wouldn't repay him by turning us both in.

But this isn't something small, this was a mistake that if left unnoticed for a few more minutes would have destroyed the ship. Having watched documentary shows about various engineering accidents, it's tragic how many disasters could have been prevented if more qualified people were in place. If Kirk had covered for Finney, then the accident could happen again, or both could get thrown out of Starfleet.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

If Kirk had covered for Finney, then the accident could happen again, or both could get thrown out of Starfleet.

That's why Starfleet wants a guy like Kirk (prime universe) to be in charge, because he does the hard thing even when no one is looking. In other words, because he's a bad friend.

 

[Kronos]

Finney was the bad friend, he knew Kirk was coming on duty, maybe that's why he shirked his job "my bud will cover for me", real friend's don't do that.