The New Klingons

[137th Gebirg]

Maybe the Hur'q ARE the original Klingons. Maybe these are the Hur'q! We know next to nothing about them and Worf proved that there are some things that "are not spoken of with outsiders" because there is a kind of cultural shame about it. Maybe these are the equivalent of the Klingon Preservers/Seeders and their true identity was covered up by millennia of cultural revisionism.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Yes, yes, the Klingons were very different 1979 (and then 1984) onwards BUT their unique turtle heads became iconic not just with Trekkies but also casuals/non-fans, so I don't get changing their appearance so much that you can't immediately identify them as Klingons.

Just like in 1979 when they changed the look of the Klingons without explanation, all they need to do is have the story refer to them as Klingons (more or less simply telling us "these are what our Klingons look like in this show/movie"), and we will recognize them thereafter as such.

When I saw TMP as a youngster when it came out, I don't remember being confused about "who are those guys with long hair and head ridges??" Granted, I realized that TOS Klingons looked different, but I was fine with the change, and I certainly had no trouble identifying them because the story was presented in a way that I knew they were Klingons.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Granted, I realized that TOS Klingons looked different, but I was fine with the change, and I certainly had no trouble identifying them because the story was presented in a way that I knew they were Klingons.

You're doing Star Trek wrong.

 

[Dukhat]

Maybe the Hur'q ARE the original Klingons. Maybe these are the Hur'q! We know next to nothing about them and Worf proved that there are some things that "are not spoken of with outsiders" because there is a kind of cultural shame about it. Maybe these are the equivalent of the Klingon Preservers/Seeders and their true identity was covered up by millennia of cultural revisionism.

You are putting WAY too much faith in the idea that the people making this show care about or even know about the Hur'q.

 

[Nerys Myk]

You are putting WAY too much faith in the idea that the people making this show care about or even know about the Hur'q.

I don't even care about the Hur'q. Half the the time I'm like "Who?"

 

[jonds91]

Worf will have a lot of explaining to do ...

 

[fireproof78]

Just like in 1979 when they changed the look of the Klingons without explanation, all they need to do is have the story refer to them as Klingons (more or less simply telling us "these are what our Klingons look like in this show/movie"), and we will recognize them thereafter as such.

When I saw TMP as a youngster when it came out, I don't remember being confused about "who are those guys with long hair and head ridges??" Granted, I realized that TOS Klingons looked different, but I was fine with the change, and I certainly had no trouble identifying them because the story was presented in a way that I knew they were Klingons.

That's way to logical for this

 

[Leighton]

I have to vote that my gut reaction wasn't positive. I'm open to it now, though, and willing to give it a chance. The Klingons need reimagining. Over the decades they've become dated and silly. The general public laughs at Klingons. They are not scary.

 

[cultcross]

I don't even care about the Hur'q. Half the the time I'm like "Who?"

Yes I hope to God the show isn't built on some tiny sneeze of canon like the Hur'q.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

I don't even care about the Hur'q. Half the the time I'm like "Who?"

I've been watching Trek since the 60's, and this thread is the first time I've ever heard of the Hur'q. Outside of the sound one of my cats makes when she's coughing up a hairball, that is.

 

[C57D]

Nope, can't have that

Though, I wonder why Klingon culture needs to be so monolithic?

Because TNG didnt go with John M Ford's fantastic, realistic, rational Klingons. Instead we got a bunch of head butting samuri - biker- vikings who are ALL warriors and growl about their personal honor every five minutes
As one dimensional and monolithic as you can get. Its a wonder they manage to clothe themselves in the morning let alone run an empire!!
Read JMF's " The Final Reflection" and see how Klingons should be.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I've been watching Trek since the 60's, and this thread is the first time I've ever heard of the Hur'q. Outside of the sound one of my cats makes when she's coughing up a hairball, that is.

It was something briefly mentioned several times in Klingon-centric episodes - in DS9 and Enterprise.

Conceptually, they sounded very similar to the Kinshaya, a race invented by FASA for the Trek RPG back in the 80's that also kicked the snot out of the Klingons during their history (the Hur'q happened during our 14th century, and the Kinshaya happened during the 23rd). Or perhaps they were created by John M. Ford in The Final Reflection and adapted by FASA. Not sure exactly which came first.

Anyway, the Kinshaya likely inspired the Hur'q but required a name change to prevent paying out royalties to Ford/FASA.

 

[C57D]

It was something briefly mentioned several times in Klingon-centric episodes - in DS9 and Enterprise.

Conceptually, they sounded very similar to the Kinshaya, a race invented by FASA for the Trek RPG back in the 80's that also kicked the snot out of the Klingons during their history (the Hur'q happened during our 14th century, and the Kinshaya happened during the 23rd). Or perhaps they were created by John M. Ford in The Final Reflection and adapted by FASA. Not sure exactly which came first.

Anyway, the Kinshaya likely inspired the Hur'q but required a name change to prevent paying out royalties to Ford/FASA.

I loved the Kinshaya and used them as the major threat in a year long FASA Klingon campaign, back in the 80's. Ford just mentioned them in TFR, but he and FASA then collaborated on the FASA Klingon sourcebook where they where further developed.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Because TNG didnt go with John M Ford's fantastic, realistic, rational Klingons. Instead we got a bunch of head butting samuri - biker- vikings who are ALL warriors and growl about their personal honor every five minutes
As one dimensional and monolithic as you can get. Its a wonder they manage to clothe themselves in the morning let alone run an empire!!
Read JMF's " The Final Reflection" and see how Klingons should be.

I see no real reason why these types of Klingons can't all exist together.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

^ agreed. To bring together ALL the different ways Klingons have been depictied (sleazy, rational, irrational, warriors, honor-bound, not-so-honor-bound) we might actually get a realistic group of aliens that aren't mono-culures, representative of a single idea.

 

[Kor]

I've been watching Trek since the 60's, and this thread is the first time I've ever heard of the Hur'q. Outside of the sound one of my cats makes when she's coughing up a hairball, that is.

See the DS9 episode "The Sword of Kahless" for an example.

Kor

 

[C57D]

I see no real reason why these types of Klingons can't all exist together.

For me I would have to disagree. Ford's are sneaky, scheming, subtle and bound to duty to their Empire/House/themselves ( in that order). They have a deep philosophy and structure to their racial sense of being. They have engineers, scientists, administrators, ambassadors, spies and starship crew and marines. ALL will fight for their family and Line, but not all are Warriors. They are a well though out and varied society, some of which adhere to the Khomerex Zha (their societal defining game of empire), some don't and some pretend not to as a tactic in the game.
The canon Klingons are so different that I cannot see the two existing together in the same empire. They are two totally different takes on Klingon one for you and one for me.
But my response was to a question as to why canon Klingons are so monolithic and single note. My answer is why imho.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

See the DS9 episode "The Sword of Kahless" for an example.

Kor

Ah, thanks for that. I know I must have seen the episode, but not since it aired. Must have gotten deleted along the way.

 

[Jesse1066]

I imagined that the Hur'q, the Fek'Ihri, and the gods the Klingons killed were one and the same, or at least connected somehow.

 

[Michael]

For me I would have to disagree. Ford's are sneaky, scheming, subtle and bound to duty to their Empire/House/themselves ( in that order). They have a deep philosophy and structure to their racial sense of being. They have engineers, scientists, administrators, ambassadors, spies and starship crew and marines. ALL will fight for their family and Line, but not all are Warriors. They are a well though out and varied society, some of which adhere to the Khomerex Zha (their societal defining game of empire), some don't and some pretend not to as a tactic in the game.
The canon Klingons are so different that I cannot see the two existing together in the same empire. They are two totally different takes on Klingon one for you and one for me.
But my response was to a question as to why canon Klingons are so monolithic and single note. My answer is why imho.

To me this sounds a lot like the Cardassians were portrayed on Deep Space Nine. They were certainly more in line with the Klingons as shown on The Original Series than the honor obsessed Vikings of the modern Trek era.