S06E26 Tears of the Prophets (spoilers)

[jonds91]

OMG! They killed Jadzia! :-( This was gut wrenching :-( Especially since her and Worf were planning to have a family. Man, I'm so gutted.

I immediately watched the first episode of the 7th season to confirm if she was dead or not and of course she was. I broke my taboo of not googling for specific information and found the death had been worked into the script as Terry Farrel was tired of the rigours of filming. This was disappointing on all fronts. Surely Farrell could have persisted for one more season?! :-(

Now I've been introduced to Ezri Dax and I'm not sure how I feel about it. She seems like a good actress and is able to portray some of the quirks Jadzia had. I'll wait and see how this pans out. Definitely not happy :-(

 

[Sakonna]

Well, one cool thing is that you got to actually experience the dramatic impact of the sudden, shocking death -- Terry Farrell leaving the series was so widely and extensively spoiled at the time, I suspect there's not that many viewers who got to let it just hit them the way it's supposed to. (And of course this was before the days in which every show had to kill at least one prominent series regular a year, just to prove that they will)

As to why she left the show, there's been so many versions of that story kicked around over the years, but I feel like what emerged as the common thread and the most plausible narrative is that, as the designated hot babe, she just wasn't being treated with the respect that her male co-stars were. She gave them a chance to treat her in an equal way, they balked, and she declined to renew her contract. It sounds like Ira Steven Behr didn't really know what was going on and would have been happy to grant all her requests, but the business side of the Trek apparatus (Berman) was not having it.

I was actually just thinking of this the other day, in the context of our contemporary discussion about wage parity in the entertainment industry. If this happened today, Terry Farrell would be embraced as a hero by the feminist blogosphere -- and rightly so.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I feel like what emerged as the common thread and the most plausible narrative is that, as the designated hot babe, she just wasn't being treated with the respect that her male co-stars were.

The consensus is that Rick Berman is a tool. She was, though, a hot property and wanted to make sure she had a career after Trek.

 

[jonds91]

As to why she left the show, there's been so many versions of that story kicked around over the years, but I feel like what emerged as the common thread and the most plausible narrative is that, as the designated hot babe, she just wasn't being treated with the respect that her male co-stars were. She gave them a chance to treat her in an equal way, they balked, and she declined to renew her contract. It sounds like Ira Steven Behr didn't really know what was going on and would have been happy to grant all her requests, but the business side of the Trek apparatus (Berman) was not having it.

Are you saying she was not getting paid the same as the men on set? That's horrible. I certainly don't think there was a lack of Dax centred episodes. She featured in many and they were building an excellent angle with the whole Worf marriage and family thing. It is indeed sad if this was a money decision and that is sad to see but understandable.

 

[Sakonna]

Are you saying she was not getting paid the same as the men on set? That's horrible.

I think the sticking point was less money and more that they let the men have time off here and there to do other jobs, and she wanted the same. I think she specifically wanted an out to shoot a pilot. I heard her talk at a convention once about how she was 35, and she knew if she didn't book another series that year, she never would -- once she's 36, she's too close to 40, and people would just stop considering her.

And she was absolutely right. She booked "Becker" immediately off of DS9, did that show for a few years, and then was off that show... right when she turned 40.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I think the sticking point was less money and more that they let the men have time off here and there to do other jobs, and she wanted the same. I think she specifically wanted an out to shoot a pilot. I heard her talk at a convention once about how she was 35, and she knew if she didn't book another series that year, she never would -- once she's 36, she's too close to 40, and people would just stop considering her.

And she was absolutely right. She booked "Becker" immediately off of DS9, did that show for a few years, and then was off that show... right when she turned 40.

I think her story is framed in a very particular way. Yes, she should have been concerned about her career. She was suddenly a hot property, thanks to appearing on TV Guide's cover (something the studio probably paid for). OTOH, the men--really only Meaney--were shooting a film, going off for a few weeks for a supporting role. The other actors were doing stage work, including Nana Visitor. They were not acting in concurrent series that would also shoot 26 episodes. Let's not forget that Becker debuted one month after DS9's season 7 started.

She wanted to take control of her career, perhaps separate herself from Star Trek--I don't blame her. She says that Berman was a misogynist--she's probably right. She made a serious tactical mistake by not going to Behr OR by not admitting that she didn't want to do it anymore. After Fifty Year Mission, three things stand out: Berman was unusually obsessed with "babes;" Behr was very protective of his talent, writers and crew; and Farrell only lets out the story in little dribbles. I think her story starts to fall apart under scrutiny.

 

[mlbach]

I disagree. What happened to Farrell is scarily similar to what happened to Claudia Christian in B5. In that case Straczynski was the tool. She wanted the option to take time off for other projects, but they were unwilling to even allow for negotiations as to time. As a result, S axed one of the pivotal characters, the one that was patterned after himself, in a classic cutting off nose to spite face. Maybe he figured it didn't matter because they were sure B5 was ending after the 4th season. Then, in an even classier move he had a character say snotty things about why Ivanova left the station.
It may seem implausible today, but women actors were paid less (they still are), respected less, and screwed with more. At least Jadzia was allowed to wear an actual uniform, unlike Kira (oh, yes, women of the future want to wear skin tight clothing. Oh, and high heels, if possible), 7of9, T'Pol...

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I hadn't heard specifically about Dax's death at the time but all the ads said "One of these characters will NOT SURVIVE!" and showed shots of all the main cast.

 

[LJS1138]

At least Jadzia was allowed to wear an actual uniform, unlike Kira (oh, yes, women of the future want to wear skin tight clothing. Oh, and high heels, if possible), 7of9, T'Pol...

That always bothers me, too. Especially since in the first season, Kira is wearing sensible-ish shoes. As the years go by, her heels get higher and higher. I do love Star Trek and especially DS9, but one refreshing thing about Babylon 5 and now the Expanse is that females aren't crammed into skintight one-piece outfits and stilettos.

 

[DamarsKanar]

No doubt there are 'babe' reasons for Kira, 7of9 and T'Pol wearing the special outfits they did - but I don't really understand so negatively singling out the use of skintight clothing for women on Trek. Has nobody watched TOS or TNG? Everyone wore skintight uniforms at various points in those shows! Plus in Enterprise, they use any excuse to get the men in their underwear.
Personally I've always found it a bit silly that during this era of Trek, everyone wears such baggy uniforms.

Regardless, it is a damn shame Terry Farrell left (although in a way it did make sense to use the Trill concept to its fullest by having a new Dax).

 

[mlbach]

TOS was so sexist in so many ways I felt it was hardly worth mentioning. The women's uniforms were an embarrassing holdover from early pulp sci-fi cover art--the kind of books adolescent boys would read in their basement bedrooms.
And you're right about TNG. Troi's early costumes--skin tight. But Tasha's uniform was sensible. And there was a scene in Farpoint where a male extra was wearing a mini, similar to the women's uniforms in TOS. But that was the only time I ever saw it.
In Enterprise they used any excuse to get the men AND women in their underwear. Oh, and smear gel on each other. With lingering close-ups. Decontamination? Riiiight. I see what you're doing there, Berman, you old lech.
But let's get back to the high heels--the modern equivalent of ancient Chinese foot binding. Some women even get foot surgery to have bones removed so they can wear the things. Just a couple years ago women were banned from the red carpet in Cannes if they weren't wearing high heels. What woman in her right mind would wear high heels to work--every day, for 8+ hours a day--if she had a choice? No one I ever met.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

It becomes very difficult to infer misogynistic studio policies from costuming decisions. Yes, the studio had an interest in having the women look sexy, but it was the same with the men. However, there was an overall desire on the part o the production to confirm individual characters to specific looks. Moreover, costuming decisions could be driven by the studio, by the costumers, by makeup choices, and by the actors and actresses themselves. Consider:

• The skirt length in TOS was driven by the competition between Nichols and Whitney to look sexier.
• In TNG and DS9, the studio dictated the appearance of facial hair on men.
• Mulgrew famously muses about how much her hair was a matter for discussion, but Stewart got away with being bald. This ignores that Behr spent three season arguing that Brooks should be able to shave his head and grow a goat, a look that was his own in public life.
• Certain aspects of Visitor's evolving outfits were things that she wanted.
• Berman famously had actresses go to have specially made bras to enhance their chests. Farrell described them as designers of apparel for women who have undergone mastectomies. Overtime, they spent less time trying to enhance Visitor's look (and I don't think they were doing so at all during or after her pregnancy).
• Shatner was probably the most concerned about his own looks, and a number of his castmates complained about the resources and time required to attend to his follicle needs.

 

[kkt]

TV is obsessed with looks, for both sexes but especially for women. I'm sure this doesn't come as a surprise to anyone. Yes, actress roles decline drastically once they're in their 40s, so they need to put away a nest egg that will last through a long retirement. This reflects society in general, it's not something Berman invented.

 

[mlbach]

I would have hoped that a show about the future would be more...progressive?
And about those bra designers--you know who else buys those bras? Transvestites and drag queens. (They're real big on the heels, too, BTW.)

 

[cultcross]

TV is obsessed with looks, for both sexes but especially for women. I'm sure this doesn't come as a surprise to anyone. Yes, actress roles decline drastically once they're in their 40s, so they need to put away a nest egg that will last through a long retirement. This reflects society in general, it's not something Berman invented.

One would like to think though, that if there is any substance behind Star Trek's progressive message, that wouldn't be the case on the Star Trek lot.

Berman may have been going along with the crowd. Much of what he did was certainly not unusual - Marina Sirtis explains that she was in non standard uniform in TNGs first season because she was 'fat' - but that doesn't excuse the behaviour. He had an opportunity, a huge one, to fight back at least a little bit against it, especially by later in DS9 when the TV atmosphere was beginning to change. But instead, the new Borg character just had to be squeezed into a skintight catsuit with built in high heels because reasons.

Hollywood is a misogynist environment, definitely. Even more so then than now, but it still is today. Women must be perfect, young, and dressed in either as little as possible or as form fitting a costume as possible. But that didn't mean Trek had to go along with that. It knew it could buck the trend - Kira was not only placed in a non 'caring' role, challenged male characters without being portrayed as a bitch, and made her own decisions, she wore a thick shoulder padded military uniform to start off with. But then the shows slipped back to lazy 'sexy female alien' stereotypes. Irritating.

 

[MacLeod]

One would like to think though, that if there is any substance behind Star Trek's progressive message, that wouldn't be the case on the Star Trek lot.

Berman may have been going along with the crowd - much of what he did was certainly not unusual - Marina Sirtis explains that she was in non standard uniform in TNGs first season because she was 'fat' - but that doesn't excuse the behaviour. He had an opportunity, a huge one, to fight back at least a little bit against it, especially by later in DS9 when the TV atmosphere was beginning to change. But instead, the new Borg character just had to be squeezed into a skintight catsuit with built in high heels because reasons.

I would hardly class Sirtis as 'fat' in S1 of TNG

 

[cultcross]

I would hardly class Sirtis as 'fat' in S1 of TNG

Neither would most people with functioning eyes, but she says " in Hollywood terms, I was obese, when I got the part, the phone call went 'You've got the job, but you need to lose 5 pounds'"
(Source: Mission Log Podcast interview with Marina Sirtis)

 

[mlbach]

They told Grace Lee Whitney she had to lose weight, too, even though she judged herself to be skinny.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Berman may have been going along with the crowd. Much of what he did was certainly not unusual - Marina Sirtis explains that she was in non standard uniform in TNGs first season because she was 'fat' - but that doesn't excuse the behaviour. He had an opportunity, a huge one, to fight back at least a little bit against it, especially by later in DS9 when the TV atmosphere was beginning to change. But instead, the new Borg character just had to be squeezed into a skintight catsuit with built in high heels because reasons.

For all his faults, could we not blame him for decisions made when he was neither an executive producer nor a show runner?

But then the shows slipped back to lazy 'sexy female alien' stereotypes. Irritating.

When pregnant and post-partum?

 

[cultcross]

For all his faults, could we not blame him for decisions made when he was neither an executive producer nor a show runner?

I didn't. The Marina Sirtis example illustrates only that shit treatment of actresses was not unusual in the industry.
Edit: If you mean the Borg mention, Berman was Executive Producer of Scorpion, Part II.