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Spoilers World Enough and Time (Grade & Discussion Thread)

How do you grade this adventure?

  • Master Quality

    Votes: 53 62.4%
  • Strong

    Votes: 26 30.6%
  • Congratulations on your relative symmetry

    Votes: 4 4.7%
  • Disappointing

    Votes: 2 2.4%
  • Pain, Pain, Pain!

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    85
  • Poll closed .
I'm regretting having read about Mr Razor's identity and Bill's fate, not to mention Missy's stint as "Doctor Who" (which perhaps leads by some circuitous route to WOTAN's use of the phrase in The War Machines) . This episode does suffer a bit from spoilers.

Still, four out of five. A daring episode if nothing else.
 
So, will Bill get un-converted, or will DW get its own racial stereotype - the black companion always gets cyberconverted? (that's two of them now, a mere two seasons apart)
 
Honestly, all the "surprises" were visible from the start. I mean, we don't know that Razor looks exactly like John Simm? And he's the Master, so the disguise has to be obvious, doesn't it? :D
 
So, will Bill get un-converted, or will DW get its own racial stereotype - the black companion always gets cyberconverted? (that's two of them now, a mere two seasons apart)

Maybe they'll do the full Locutus shtick with her (I'm a bit disappointed that they wasted that opportunity in Nightmare in Silver.) and have the Doctor talk her out of the conditioning. That little shot of the tear at the end seems to indicate that her human face is still intact beneath the cloth cover - unlike the Lumic versions whose bodies are shredded and incinerated - so she could be salvageable, but we already know she's a one-term companion so maybe it's for real.
 
Maybe they'll do the full Locutus shtick with her (I'm a bit disappointed that they wasted that opportunity in Nightmare in Silver.) and have the Doctor talk her out of the conditioning. .

Oh, fuck not again, notafter fucking Closing Time...

Be interesting to see if they make anything of his subconscious suggestion about waiting for him making its way into the Borg-like neural net he implied they have.
 
Someone needs to have a word with the BBC Publicity department as about 95% of the story was already revealed in advance from the trailers and other officialy released materials.

Really apart from the pre-credits sequence* there wasn't a single surprise in it. And they've done it again for next week by having a shot of the unCybered Bill in the Trailer. (Not the "Next Time" one, the seperate one.)

And good to see I not the only person wondering why Simm was playing Zathras!

*That's not the South Pole circa-1986 by any chance?
 
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A thought - what if the frozen world is Telos, and the Doctor is planning to use his regen energy to restore Bill via the hive system?

That said, given the rumours of the First Doctor showing up, I agree it could well be a crossover with The Tenth Planet.
 
Wow, what an incredible episode. Putting aside the dodgy physics, the episode had a wonderful but strange blending of humor and darkness.

I was probably a little slower than others that Simm was masquerading as Razor (heh, he was rather Zathras-like, wasn't he?), but when Bill and The Master were "outside" the hospital, something about the excessive make-up finally stood out to me. It had bothered me before and I wondered why he looked so different from the nurse and doctor, but I couldn't put the my finger on it. During that outside scene, I suddenly could see his eyes and remembered how much The Master loves his disguises. Pity the name he chose wasn't an anagram of The Master (or even Harold Saxon).

And finally we get The Simm Master with a proper goatee and dressed in black!

The episode explored the Cybermen in a way that I haven't seen done properly in a long time (certainly not since the classic series and certainly not during the rubbish in series 2). The Mondasians are in complete pain from the conversion, and while it wasn't necessary to explain, we learn how each part of the Mondasian Cybermen costume was developed. The chest component for the heart, the hospital gown is directly incorporated over the entire body (which had been implied before), and the headpiece acts as an emotional inhibitor. Even Bill's tear echoes the future costume design (and works far better than Yvonne's allusion).

So, if I correctly understand the exposition from the end of the episode, this ship is from Mondas and therefore developed the Cybermen independently from the Cybermen seen in The Tenth Planet, which would mean this story doesn't conflict with Big Finish's Spare Parts origin story. Assuming I understand the exposition correctly.

I have only two complaints about the episode. I wish we had the opportunity to see the horror of Bill's slow conversion by showing her "heart" transplant. It wouldn't even involve any kind of nudity because the chest device completely covers the front side of her torso. The other problem with the episode was the godsdamn stomping. I've always hated the new series Cybermen stomping and it looks and sounds all the more ridiculous when it's applied to the Mondasian Cybermen considering they walked normally (relatively so).

I can only hope "The Doctor Falls" is a satisfying conclusion in ways "The Last of the Time Lords" and "Hell Bent" absolutely weren't.

I sure wish people hadn't spoiled me about what appeared in the teaser for the next episode. :(

Oh, and I guess Spare Parts is no longer the go-to story for the Cybermen's origin. Too bad.
Actually, I think it might still work (see my above review).

Well, that was.... unsurprising. And if Chibnall never does the "Doctor Who" name reference within an episode, it'll be twenty billion years too soon.
Honestly, this was the one time I didn't mind it because it played well with Missy's test. But I can see how it would be annoying along with all of Moffat's endless gags about his name.

Tell you what, though, all of Capaldi's finales have definitely benefited, visually and tonally, from having an actual Hollywood director in charge. I'm glad she's helming the Xmas Special to see him out as well.
Absolutely! The only other director whose style has stood out to me in the new series has been Graeme Harper's and I sure wish he would return.

Did anyone else recognize a shot from the series 8 finale? I thought I saw one, anyway.
Which shot?

Someone needs to have a word with the BBC Publicity department as about 95% of the story was already revealed in advance from the trailers and other officialy released materials.

Really apart from the pre-credits sequence* there wasn't a single surprise in it. And they've done it again for next week by having a shot of the unCybered Bill in the Trailer. (Not the "Next Time" one, the seperate one.)
No kidding. Granted part of the problem is my own lack of self-control to look for these details, but I agree the BBC needs to work on their publicity.

I'm assuming so, and that it'll be a cliffhanger into the Xmas Special.
That's my guess as well. One of a number of lovely callbacks to The Tenth Planet.

I think we're all trying to forget that horror. Including Chris Chibnall. ;)
 
Finally we get The Simm Master with a proper goatee and dressed in black!

He wore black suits in Series 3 and a black hoodie in Series 4.

Even Bill's tear echoes the future costume design (and works far better than Yvonne's allusion).

It was always rather puzzling that Hartman (and Lumic himself) could still manage to project their human voices at climactic moments despite their vocal cords having been shredded and burned.

I think we're all trying to forget that horror. Including Chris Chibnall. ;)

Seven of Nine looks subtle by comparison.
 
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He's not getting off that easily.
Fair. While I don't excuse him for that shitfest, I am happy to see he has progressed greatly as a writer since then.

He wore black suits in Series 3 and a black hoodie in Series 4.
Ah, true, although the outfit he was wearing at the end felt very much in the vein of Delgaldo and Ainley.

It was always rather puzzling that Harman (and Lumic himself) could still manage to project their human voices at climactic moments despite their vocal cords having been shredded and burned.
Yeah, that always bothered me, too (just a long list of crap from those episodes). The tear works hear because it would suggest the headpiece isn't completely successful in inhabiting Bill's emotions.
 
So I'm guessing the appearace of the other types of Cybermen will be an effect of the Time Dilation rather than actual time travel, since most of the episode appears to be set higher up the ship.
 
5/5 for me. I love spare parts but I'll happily take this is an origin story.

The trailer does concern me that part 2 might be a bit of a let down.
 
Well, considering the only Part 2 of a Moffat two-parter that was any good at all has been The Pandorica Opens (series 6 and 7 had single episode finales), yeah, I think its something to expect. I just hope the Master-Missy-Doctor scenes are filled with lovely dialogue interplay. Its the one thing I'm really hoping for.

Otherwise, brilliant Part 1, and fully expecting a disappointing Part 2.
 
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