STC Ep. 8: "Still Treads The Shadow" rating and discussion....
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
@DavidAntman, you can't have it both ways.
You can't infer that folks can't critique the work of professionals unless they are professionals in that same field...
...then damn them when the provide their credentials to do so, saying they're appealing to authority.
At this point, it's grasping for the nearest "argument" (read: any counterpoint) in reach so you can stand your ground.
You can't infer that folks can't critique the work of professionals unless they are professionals in that same field...
...then damn them when the provide their credentials to do so, saying they're appealing to authority.
At this point, it's grasping for the nearest "argument" (read: any counterpoint) in reach so you can stand your ground.
It's gotten sort of quiet, so I hope your suggestion has been well taken.
It was a JOKE. Geez.
Actually, the member in question provided no credentials other than "Take my word for it," asked me to PM him my home address(?), and then violated board rules by calling me "deluded" - name-calling to which I've never resorted.
Look, argumentum ad verecundiam is just a silly way to debate. The same people who argue that they have the authority to judge other writers' work ("I have over 25 years of experience so I know what I'm talking about"), then proceed to criticize an original TOS writer with over 50 years of experience... and justify it by suggesting that "professionals can create bad content" or "it doesn't take an expert to see a turd," etc. You can't argue from your (claimed) authority/experience when it suits you to, but then discard the whole argumentum ad verecundiam M.O. when it works against you. Talk about grasping to stand one's ground.
Again, I enjoy ST:C but it isn't without its flaws. But I would never waste countless hours on a message board criticizing something I dislike over and over and over again... let alone dare to imply that I could do better without providing extraordinary evidence of that claim.
The only person who mentioned his credentials was Bixby. I certainly didn't make claims to any, yet you're citing some of my arguments. The simple fact is that you are—as the Argument Clinic quote goes—gainsaying and being pretty bluntly dismissive. We get it, you like STC. Lots of people do. No one says you shouldn't. But it's not kind to dismiss other people's opinions just because you don't happen to agree.
EDIT: I also answered your request to have named someone on this board who sold a script. But you didn't acknowledge that.
EDIT: I also answered your request to have named someone on this board who sold a script. But you didn't acknowledge that.
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I don't "dismiss". But I take it with a grain of salt when a vocal minority spends countless hours posting on an Internet BBS over and over and over again how much they don't like a given thing. That's usually an indicator of an ulterior/personal motive.
Bixby and you appear to be friends, and in general have each others' backs. So yes, I lump you together. If that's unfair, I apologize.
The other individual to which you referred (re: selling a script) is someone I'm not familiar with, although his post history seems to (like yours and Bixby's) indicate a personal dislike for Mr. Mignoga. So again - grain of salt.
My position on "argumentum ad verecundiam" stands.
I respond to your assertions/arguments with reasoned answers/explanations, and apologize if I made out-of-line assumptions.
You respond by calling me "pretentious" and answering my arguments with "I'm done here."
"Dismissive," eh? Pot, meet kettle.
It's gotten sort of quiet, so I hope your suggestion has been well taken.
Didn't last long. This group needs a moderator that will actually...you know...moderate the group!
Didn't last long. This group needs a moderator that will actually...you know...moderate the group!
Agreed. Name-calling and repeat (spam) posts are specific violations of the board's terms of service... but those rules don't seem to be enforced.
DavidAntman: Please stop (what looks like) intentionally bating other board members--specifically, board members who are not necessarily as unabashedly enthusiastic about each and every Star Trek Continues episode as you are. The threads you post in often devolve into meta-discussions about the discussions themselves, instead of about the nominal subject of the thread. The signal-to-noise ratio seems to drop in threads you frequent.
And just to try and be fair minded, I understand that it takes two (or more) to tango. I would be appreciative if all board members could redouble their efforts at not taking bait; try to develope thicker skin, please.
Without labeling anyone a troll, the admonition to board members to "do not feed the trolls" might be of value.
"If you kids can't behave, I'll turn this car right around!"
And just to try and be fair minded, I understand that it takes two (or more) to tango. I would be appreciative if all board members could redouble their efforts at not taking bait; try to develope thicker skin, please.
Without labeling anyone a troll, the admonition to board members to "do not feed the trolls" might be of value.
"If you kids can't behave, I'll turn this car right around!"
I just saw #8 -- "Still Treads the Shadow" -- and I enjoyed it. I know it came out awhile back, but I was saving it for a day when I'd need it, since you only get one chance to watch a new TOS episode for the first time.
I thought it was AMAZING that this episode was written by Judy Burns, who was half of the team that wrote "The Tholian Web." Writing a follow-up to an episode she wrote in 1968 -- that's just WOW.
I had my usual mixed reaction to the guest star. On the one hand, I think it's a wonderful thing that the STC team is trying to mitigate the sexism of the TOS era by adding more women to the show.
On the other hand, I'd never seen Avi before and didn't care about her, whereas I've cared about the TOS regulars since 1969, so I usually have a "Who's SHE, and why would I care" feeling about new characters. And since Avi was a scientist, she was doing a lot of things that Spock would have done in a regular episode. Since I think STC doesn't have enough Spock, anyway, I hate it when something reduces his role even further.
But watching old Kirk wrestle with his loneliness and feelings of betrayal and come down on the side of right is the kind of thing I watch Star Trek for, so it was great to see that.
This was a big showcase for Vic, since he was both the regular captain and the main "guest" star.
Of course, given all the work he puts in on these, I can't fault him for wanting a chance to show off a little.
I spent the whole episode looking at the patch on old Kirk's shirt, seeing that it was different from everyone else's patch, and waiting for the big reveal that the different patch meant that he was from an alternate universe and wasn't really their Kirk. That never happened, so I was left wondering WHY the costumers chose to give old Kirk a different patch. It's not like we couldn't tell the old one from the young one without it.
Right before beaming over to the Defiant, Kirk told Spock that if he vanished this time, Spock shouldn't put the ship in danger to rescue him. Then the whole episode was about how hurt, betrayed, and abandoned old Kirk felt when the Enterprise didn't rescue him. So if Kirk is rescued, he thinks it was a mistake, and if Kirk isn't rescued, he thinks it was a mistake? It's a good thing Spock's a Vulcan; a human might have trouble with that damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation, but Spock can just think that the silly humans are being illogical AGAIN.
Anyway, no episode is ever perfect, but I enjoyed this one!
I thought it was AMAZING that this episode was written by Judy Burns, who was half of the team that wrote "The Tholian Web." Writing a follow-up to an episode she wrote in 1968 -- that's just WOW.
I had my usual mixed reaction to the guest star. On the one hand, I think it's a wonderful thing that the STC team is trying to mitigate the sexism of the TOS era by adding more women to the show.
But watching old Kirk wrestle with his loneliness and feelings of betrayal and come down on the side of right is the kind of thing I watch Star Trek for, so it was great to see that.
This was a big showcase for Vic, since he was both the regular captain and the main "guest" star.
I spent the whole episode looking at the patch on old Kirk's shirt, seeing that it was different from everyone else's patch, and waiting for the big reveal that the different patch meant that he was from an alternate universe and wasn't really their Kirk. That never happened, so I was left wondering WHY the costumers chose to give old Kirk a different patch. It's not like we couldn't tell the old one from the young one without it.
Right before beaming over to the Defiant, Kirk told Spock that if he vanished this time, Spock shouldn't put the ship in danger to rescue him. Then the whole episode was about how hurt, betrayed, and abandoned old Kirk felt when the Enterprise didn't rescue him. So if Kirk is rescued, he thinks it was a mistake, and if Kirk isn't rescued, he thinks it was a mistake? It's a good thing Spock's a Vulcan; a human might have trouble with that damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation, but Spock can just think that the silly humans are being illogical AGAIN.
Anyway, no episode is ever perfect, but I enjoyed this one!
Well the second time around, I think he had a lot more context and perspective. The situations are different; he knows the stakes, and that he wasn't just ignored and abandoned. I'm sure that the resentment didn't build up for many years, anyways. The insignia, I took it to mean that he had to start wearing clothes from the Defiant, hence the different symbol.
I love the episode, but still can't get over the thought of how awesome it would have been to have Shatner reprise his role and play the elder Kirk one last time in this episode. What a Swan Song...
I love the episode, but still can't get over the thought of how awesome it would have been to have Shatner reprise his role and play the elder Kirk one last time in this episode. What a Swan Song...
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You might be right in application, but the sheer awesome factor would constantly overpower the distraction for me, I think. The contrast in their voices would be a bit jarring, though.
There was one incident where someone from STC production posted a meme with Shatner's Kirk to promote one of the kickstarters. The next day, Shatner posted a warning in no uncertain terms to take it down. He's totally protective of his image (and of course legal ramifications) and I doubt he would even consider doing a fan film ,no matter how high the quality. The speed at which it was swatted down was a little surprising.
I would be surprised if it was even a consideration. The episode was an actors dream part and Vic was very good in it. You could see it when he talked about it more than some of the other episodes.
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