Why is there resistance to the idea of Starfleet being military?

[The Wormhole]

So what branch of the military was Christopher columbus.

Christopher Columbus was made a naval Admiral in recognition of his accomplishments. He may not have been military during his exploration days, but he was awarded with military authority.

Or in the klingon military how many scientists or engineers do u think are serving on those ships.

We know Klingons have a dedicated engineering staff, that was where Alexander worked in Martok's BoP. Likewise, Klingon ships have a science officer assigned to the bridge.

They consider theirselves a military, so diplomacy or scientific discovery is their very low on their priorities.

Romulans have science labs and science staffs on their ships, not to mention dedicated science ships, and they're as militant as they come. There are science officer aboard Starfleet ships in the MU, which is most certainly military.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Even in the US DoD, roughly one in four of the total employees and over a third of active list are civilians, likewise the DHS has nearly three-quarters of a million but less than a third of those are military (and only half of them active service).

 

[The Wormhole]

And hell, if want to get down to it, NASA has several active duty military officers among its astronauts. Indeed, Chris Hadfield, arguably the most famous modern-day astronaut was active duty military during his NASA career.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

And hell, if want to get down to it, NASA has several active duty military officers among its astronauts. Indeed, Chris Hadfield, arguably the most famous modern-day astronaut was active duty military during his NASA career.

IIRC, most of the Apollo astronauts were either active or former military too.

 

[Hunter Zolomon]

IIRC, most of the Apollo astronauts were either active or former military too.

still doest make nasa the millitary right.

 

[Nerys Myk]

So what branch of the military was Christopher columbus. Or in the klingon military how many scientists or engineers do u think are serving on those ships. Not too many, wanna know why? They consider theirselves a military, so diplomacy or scientific discovery is their very low on their priorities. While in star fleet, every vessel seems to be filled with mostly scientists and biologists, engineers. From the top of the chain of command to the lowest ranked.

You do realize that not everyone in the Military are "combat specialists", right? My uncle was a Marine, he worked on computers. My brother in law was USAF, he worked on HVAC systems. My sister was also USAF, she was dental tech. My father was USAF, he worked in Electronic Surveillance. Out of the four, his was the closest to purely military.

 

[suarezguy]

I think a large part of not wanting Starfleet to be a military stems from a personal disapproval of the military in general and not wanting Starfleet to be something that is personally disapproved of.

I admit I believe militaries do tend to be pretty brutal toward their lower-ranked members, let alone their opponents, and to support using their force against others. Institutionally I think a military is more likely to be used in unjust conflicts rather than only just conflicts than some other organization that turned to defense indeed only as a last resort.

Violence is still a last resort in today's military.

I think that's very doubtful ...

Are you saying military automatically equals "shoot first, ask questions never" and that any other method is the very definition of non-military?

Probably not ask questions never but I think the attitudes of "The best diplomat is a [insert weapon/bomb]!" (yes Scotty does say that once and I think it is and should be a notable exception), "What good do diplomats do us?" and "Let's bomb 'em into the stone age!" do tend to be a lot more common and popular in the military than in the wider populations.

 

[Tenacity]

it wouldn't have made sense to have instead called it, let alone the later series, Star Troops or Space Troopers.

Given that it was a "space navy" show, no that wouldn't have made sense.

that would be odd if Starfleet was a military with combat its main purpose.

More defense is Starfleet first duty, with other activities being undertaken when the first duty wasn't.

Violence is still a last resort in today's military.

I think that's very doubtful ...

Your doubts are misplaced. Outside of active war zones (and sometime even in them) most militaries have a policy of don't fire first. Rules of engagement.

Around the world, militaries go years and even decades without firing a shot in anger.

Christopher Columbus was made a naval Admiral in recognition of his accomplishments. He may not have been military during his exploration days, but he was awarded with military authority.

Columbus was a Admiral in the Spanish Navy during his voyages of exploration, he was in command of multiple ships.

They perform defense operation for the Federation because they tend to be on the scene already

And many times they are deliberately sent by the Federation into combat, and they are the one who fight wars.

 

[Nyotarules]

The people who would feel free to attack them, once they've been stripped of their powerful protector.

There are 28 members in NATO, America is nearly three quarters of the alliance's total fire power.

So if the USA, China, Russia stayed in their corner the other nations cannot defend themselves?

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I would recommend Rescue Warriors by David Helvarg https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Re...id=1497815832&sr=8-3&keywords=Rescue+Warriors for anyone who doesn't believe that an organisation can be military in nature but prefer to do virtually anything else they are authorised to do other than combat (icebreaking, fisheries enforcement, environmental protection, marine safety, aids to navigation, search and rescue, law enforcement/security, drug interdiction).

 

[Prax]

So what branch of the military was Christopher columbus. Or in the klingon military how many scientists or engineers do u think are serving on those ships. Not too many, wanna know why? They consider theirselves a military, so diplomacy or scientific discovery is their very low on their priorities. While in star fleet, every vessel seems to be filled with mostly scientists and biologists, engineers. From the top of the chain of command to the lowest ranked. Star fleets seems to essentially be NASA, if they were capable of interstellar flight and warfare. Starfleet will defend the federation if it needs to but its main job would be exploration. Which makes sense if u think of the federation, Starfleet officers keep remindibg us their not soldiers, and i am sure if they were considered the military, new worlds would be less likely to join the federation because of the fear of having a foreign military force superseding theirs. However if they are considered more explorers than soldiers, worlds would be put at ease. Its do clear how different star fleet is in contrast to the armed forces of other factions. Star fleet is essentially armed scientists and explorers with the mandate to use lethal force if they need to.

The Royal Navy, and U.S. Navy (among others), explored, mapped, and charted the known world. This includes everything from the "new world" to all of the arctic and Antarctic expeditions if the 20th century.

 

[Hunter Zolomon]

The Royal Navy, and U.S. Navy (among others), explored, mapped, and charted the known world. This includes everything from the "new world" to all of the arctic and Antarctic expeditions if the 20th century.

all of this is pointless, as the very characters in the unoiverse dont consider themselves soldiers, but rather diplomats and explorers. I doubt you can say the same about a lot of the other armed forces in star trek.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

all of this is pointless, as the very characters in the unoiverse dont consider themselves soldiers, but rather diplomats and explorers. I doubt you can say the same about a lot of the other armed forces in star trek.

The "Creed of the United States Coast Guardsman" was written by Vice Admiral Harry G. Hamlet, who served as Commandant of the Coast Guard from 1932 to 1936.[79]

I am proud to be a United States Coast Guardsman.
I revere that long line of expert seamen who by their devotion to duty and sacrifice of self have made it possible for me to be a member of a service honored and respected, in peace and in war, throughout the world.
I never, by word or deed, will bring reproach upon the fair name of my service, nor permit others to do so unchallenged.
I will cheerfully and willingly obey all lawful orders.
I will always be on time to relieve, and shall endeavor to do more, rather than less, than my share.
I will always be at my station, alert and attending to my duties.
I shall, so far as I am able, bring to my seniors solutions, not problems.
I shall live joyously, but always with due regard for the rights and privileges of others.
I shall endeavor to be a model citizen in the community in which I live.
I shall sell life dearly to an enemy of my country, but give it freely to rescue those in peril.
With God's help, I shall endeavor to be one of His noblest Works...
A UNITED STATES COAST GUARDSMAN.

— Creed of the United States Coast Guardsman

Would the above describe themselves as 'soldiers', I would stay definately not. I think most would reluctantly admit to being a military organisation (which Starfleet is least in part potentially), but would argue that their purpose is to save lives and protect the environment.

 

[WARLOCK1965]

So what branch of the military was Christopher columbus. Or in the klingon military how many scientists or engineers do u think are serving on those ships. Not too many, wanna know why? They consider theirselves a military, so diplomacy or scientific discovery is their very low on their priorities. While in star fleet, every vessel seems to be filled with mostly scientists and biologists, engineers. From the top of the chain of command to the lowest ranked. Star fleets seems to essentially be NASA, if they were capable of interstellar flight and warfare. Starfleet will defend the federation if it needs to but its main job would be exploration. Which makes sense if u think of the federation, Starfleet officers keep remindibg us their not soldiers, and i am sure if they were considered the military, new worlds would be less likely to join the federation because of the fear of having a foreign military force superseding theirs. However if they are considered more explorers than soldiers, worlds would be put at ease. Its do clear how different star fleet is in contrast to the armed forces of other factions. Star fleet is essentially armed scientists and explorers with the mandate to use lethal force if they need to.

Force is the last thing anyone wants be I'd that's what it takes their ready to but peaceful answers are always welcome

 

[Tenacity]

I think most would reluctantly admit to being a military organisation

Have you ever spoken to someone in the USCG? They are fully aware and proud to be US military.

all of this is pointless, as the very characters in the universe don't consider themselves soldiers, but rather diplomats and explorers.

LaForge and O'Brein consider themselves to be engineers and Starfleet Officers, likely not "diplomats and explorers."

So if the USA, China, Russia stayed in their corner the other nations cannot defend themselves?

Without it's ally the United States and the conciliation it built, could Kuwait have expelled it's invader in the early 1990's?

Maybe the US should have sat out WWII in Europe?

If present day the US was resolved to "stayed in their corner" but Russia had no intention to?

How long until the Balkans go bye-bye, and maybe Finland too?

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Have you ever spoken to someone in the USCG? They are fully aware and proud to be US military.

I'll admit that "reluctant to admit they are military" is might be overstating the point, however would you agree that they would describe themselves as "rescue and law enforcement not soldiers".

 

[1001001]

"Soldiers" are in the Army.

The Coast Guard refers to their members as "Coast Guardsmen".

And although they are under DHS, they are definitely military.

 

[Nyotarules]

all of this is pointless, as the very characters in the unoiverse dont consider themselves soldiers, but rather diplomats and explorers. I doubt you can say the same about a lot of the other armed forces in star trek.

'I'm a soldier not a diplomat' - Captain James T Kirk

 

[Nerys Myk]

all of this is pointless, as the very characters in the unoiverse dont consider themselves soldiers, but rather diplomats and explorers. I doubt you can say the same about a lot of the other armed forces in star trek.

"Diplomats! The best diplomat I know is a fully activated phaser bank!"- Lt. Commander Montgomery Scott

 

[Nyotarules]

Without it's ally the United States and the conciliation it built, could Kuwait have expelled it's invader in the early 1990's?

Maybe the US should have sat out WWII in Europe?

If present day the US was resolved to "stayed in their corner" but Russia had no intention to?

How long until the Balkans go bye-bye, and maybe Finland too?

The US stayed out of WW2 until Pearl Harbor.

My made up set up includes all the major powers hence the words USA, China and Russia. There would be no Cold war and proxy wars if neither side were not playing soldiers via other nations.
I should include imperial Britain as well, their hands were all over the historical Middle East set up we have today.