The 4th Uniform Color???

[WRStone]

I'd largely keep the Division-level tunic colors. However, I'd add a simple stripe down the pants leg as they did in ST2-6. You then break out job specialty by changing the stripe color but not the Division tunic.

I would do away with skirt uniforms completely, except as an option with a dress uniform. Otherwise, everyone gets a tunic and pants. I might keep the raised collar on female uniforms as seen in "The Cage" as an option. I thought it was aesthetically pleasing. There would still be wraparound tunics (worn by anyone, male or female), but the colors would conform to the Division colors.

You'd have something like this:

• Line Officers: Gold
  • Admiral Of the Fleet: White piping on all tunic seams and cuffs; three pants stripes: all white with gold piping between them
    
  • Flag Officers (Fleet Captain through Admiral): Three pants stripes: gold, white, gold
    
  • CO: White. Nobody else on the ship has white.
    
  • Helm/Navigation: Gold
  • Fire Control: Red
  • Others: Fill in your favorite color
• Sciences: Blue
  • Medical: Green
  • Astrophysics: Blue
  • Information Technology: Orange
  • Geology: Brown
    
  • Others: Fill in your favorite color
    
  • Line Officer: Gold
• Engineering/Support Services: Red
  • Warp Propulsion Systems: Red
    
  • Impulse Propulsion Systems: Green
  • Weapons Systems: Violet
    
  • Damage Control Systems: Blue
  • Flight Control: Brown
  • Communications: Green
    
  • Others: Fill in your favorite color
  • Line Officer: Gold
• Security: Black
  • Phaser Specialist: Red
  • Photon Torpedo Specialist: Blue
    
  • Ground Forces: Green
  • Space Forces: Black
  • Others: Fill in your favorite color
  • Line Officer: Gold

You'll note I've included a "Line Officer" specialty in each Division. This is because Spock (probably an astrophysicist) was also XO and Scotty (probably a warp systems specialist) was apparently Second Officer. Real-world navies don't do this. They have Line Officers (those who can be put in command of something) and Staff Officers (those who can't).

But things are different in Starfleet. Anybody can be a Line Officer with the proper training, and even go on to be CO on their own ship. To signify this, each division has a Line Officer color denoting that they are in line to command the ship.

Kirk would have a gold tunic with a white pants stripe. Spock would have a blue tunic with a gold pants stripe. Scotty would have a red tunic and gold pants stripe.

Uhura (stated Third Officer, though we never saw it) would be red tunic, gold pants stripe. Lieutenant Palmer or Lieutenant M'Ress would be red tunic, green stripe.

Commander Giotto (Security Chief, "Devil In the Dark") would probably be in line of command. Make him Fourth Officer with a Black/Gold combination.

Someone like Marla McGivers would be very different. In the 23rd century, specialized historians are probably under the general category of IT. She'd be blue/organge. Or if not IT, blue/insert your favorite color.

Heaven forbid you see the people in black tunics, black pants, and black pants stripes ... brrrr.

Dakota Smith

 

[FormerLurker]

Dakota, I'm stealing this for my Space Opera. I'll fiddle with it, to be sure, but this is a great starting point.

 

[Tenacity]

Uhura (stated Third Officer, though we never saw it)

I find this assertion odd, and wonder where you heard it?

It always seemed to me that Uhura was pretty low in the ship's hierarchy, sure she was a lieutenant, but the ship was swimming in lieutenants. We only saw her temporarily in command once, and that was when two-thirds of the officers were incapacitated in one of the cartoons.

 

[Spock's Barber]

Wasn't Scotty 3rd in command?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Wasn't Scotty 3rd in command?

Yes, but that makes make him the Second Officer.
Kirk Commanding Officer
Spock First Officer
Scott Second Officer
???? Third Officer

 

[Spock's Barber]

Yes, but that makes make him the Second Officer.
Kirk Commanding Officer
Spock First Officer
Scott Second Officer
???? Third Officer

Abbott and Costello are 3rd officer...."Who's on first."

 

[Nerys Myk]

Abbott and Costello are 3rd officer...."Who's on first."

You could rewrite that sketch using bridge positions.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

???? Third Officer

On-screen evidence suggests Sulu was de facto Third officer, however Tactical Officer Lang (before his death in Arena), Security Chief Giotto, Records Officer Finney and even Ann Mulhall (all lieuteant commanders) could in theory outrank Sulu and Lang and Finney almost certainly should.

 

[WARLOCK1965]

And an actual flight team to handle small craft operations (with maybe even a flight or wing commander on ships with a large complement of small craft)?

I agree, but, I also understand that on a meta level, they want to give the big 3, er 7, er whatever stuff to do and screen time - not have a whole bunch of recurring characters stealing the limelight. The Chief Engineer being in charge of ship's security made zero sense, otherwise, and that's just the most blatant example.

I am sorry be the Chief Engine never heard of Mr. Scott being call that before or any one Chief of Engineering. I can see the two Chief's working together for better security on broad the ship

 

[WARLOCK1965]

On-screen evidence suggests Sulu was de facto Third officer, however Tactical Officer Lang (before his death in Arena), Security Chief Giotto, Records Officer Finney and even Ann Mulhall (all lieuteant commanders) could in theory outrank Sulu and Lang and Finney almost certainly should.

Kirk captain ; Spock First Officer ; Scotty ; McCoy ; Lang ; Giotto; Finney ; and Mulhall were Lieutenant Commander's they date of rank would set the chain of command but one must also think of they training to take command of the ship

 

[Nerys Myk]

Kirk captain ; Spock First Officer ; Scotty ; McCoy ; Lang ; Giotto; Finney ; and Mulhall were Lieutenant Commander's they date of rank would set the chain of command but one must also think of they training to take command of the ship

McCoy's a doctor an probably not in the chain of command, no matter what his rank.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I am sorry be the Chief Engine never heard of Mr. Scott being call that before or any one Chief of Engineering. I can see the two Chief's working together for better security on broad the ship

No offense, but this was nearly incomprehensible - but I'll try to respond to what you might have possibly meant, anyway. If you're suggesting that Scotty wasn't the Chief Engineer (!), then there are numerous places in screen canon where he is directly referred to as such. If you're trying to say that Scotty was never stated to be Chief of Security, well, I'll acknowledge that, and even point out that we *heard* someone else respond to Kirk calling for Security from the bridge in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" with "Security Chief here", BUT, we never *saw* anyone of an appropriately senior rank other than Scotty actually lead a security detail.

 

[Spock's Barber]

McCoy's a doctor an probably not in the chain of command, no matter what his rank.

"Dammit, Jim. I'm a doctor, not a Starfleet Captain!"

 

[J.T.B.]

If you're trying to say that Scotty was never stated to be Chief of Security, well, I'll acknowledge that, and even point out that we *heard* someone else respond to Kirk calling for Security from the bridge in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" with "Security Chief here", BUT, we never *saw* anyone of an appropriately senior rank other than Scotty actually lead a security detail.

I already mentioned this upthread, but yes we did, it's in "The Devil in the Dark," he's a lieutenant commander, his name is Giotto, and he's pretty clearly in charge of the ship's security force.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I already mentioned this upthread, but yes we did, it's in "The Devil in the Dark," he's a lieutenant commander, his name is Giotto, and he's pretty clearly in charge of the ship's security force.

Okay - I just went and looked at Memory Alpha, and I'm right about Giotto not having been named as actual Security Chief anywhere in the episode. So, you can't canonically assert that. However, I will acknowledge that I had forgotten that he actually appeared on screen (it's been a while since I've run through TOS), and he *does* have sufficient rank to be Security Chief. So, I'll allow that you're probably right unless someone can counter with canon. However however, none of that explains why the voice of the Security Chief in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" wasn't his, nor why we only saw him lead a security detail *once*, but saw Scotty do it on several occasions... not pointing that out to contradict the idea that Giotto is the chief, just saying that it's weird.

 

[J.T.B.]

However however, none of that explains why the voice of the Security Chief in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" wasn't his, nor why we only saw him lead a security detail *once*, but saw Scotty do it on several occasions... not pointing that out to contradict the idea that Giotto is the chief, just saying that it's weird.

Well it wasn't Scotty's voice as security chief either, so the idea that the chief engineer is in charge of security is pretty far out. Scotty leading security men on a landing party would just be a function of his rank.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Scotty led a landing party of red shirts in "Friday's Child," but that doesn't make him security chief any more than Kirk beaming down with all of those red shirts in "Obsession" made Kirk security chief. They were simply landing party commanders.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Scotty led a landing party of red shirts in "Friday's Child," but that doesn't make him security chief any more than Kirk beaming down with all of those red shirts in "Obsession" made Kirk security chief. They were simply landing party commanders.

Fair enough. It's just that it seems like that whenever Scotty was leading a landing party, it was usually a landing party that was otherwise filled with red shirts, and they were coming to kick some butt and bail the main landing party out.

 

[WARLOCK1965]

McCoy's a doctor an probably not in the chain of command, no matter what his rank.

Please remember that Dr. Crusher did take the night watch from time of time. And think about hospital ships their Captain's could be doctors. So under the right conditions the CMO could be in command

 

[WARLOCK1965]

No offense, but this was nearly incomprehensible - but I'll try to respond to what you might have possibly meant, anyway. If you're suggesting that Scotty wasn't the Chief Engineer (!), then there are numerous places in screen canon where he is directly referred to as such. If you're trying to say that Scotty was never stated to be Chief of Security, well, I'll acknowledge that, and even point out that we *heard* someone else respond to Kirk calling for Security from the bridge in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" with "Security Chief here", BUT, we never *saw* anyone of an appropriately senior rank other than Scotty actually lead a security detail.

Yes you are right as told others my eyes are not good with small letters and I misread and out it out of order yes Scotty was Chief of Engineering but I had not heard of him being call Chief of Security I am sorry for my mistake and thank you