Kelvin Timeline all but confirmed

[Campe]

Gosh, it's like I'm in a group of Religious Fundamentalists!

Now that's not fair. No one said you had to like every episode and movie. No one said you had to watch them. If you want to call this your own personal continuity, that's fine. I'm sorry that some of us find the whole concept a little ridiculous. But we do.

Continuity is continuity. Liking or disliking something is just preference. It's subjective. I personally can accept that.

 

[Gojira]

'Fan/personal continuity' is an oxymoron.

Fundamentalism has nothing to do with it.

A Fundamentalist mindset can exist in any ideology including a science-fiction franchise.

 

[Gojira]

Now that's not fair. No one said you had to like every episode and movie. No one said you had to watch them. If you want to call this your own personal continuity, that's fine. I'm sorry that some of us find the whole concept a little ridiculous. But we do.

Continuity is continuity. Liking or disliking something is just preference. It's subjective. I personally can accept that.

If you can accept the subjective nature of this, and you're fine with people having their own personal continuity then I am sure at some level you can have some empathy why people do this...then why would it be ridiculous?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Emphasis on the fiction. I'm not asking for perfection, all I'm doing is putting all the pieces together in a way that fits for me.

I don't need it to fit. Or need to discard the stuff that doesn't or that I don't like. That just doesn't make sense. I've no love for STV, Voyager and several of the TNG films. But they're still part of the continuity. Excising them seems like a waste of time an effort. Excising the stuff that doesn't fit, even more so. Especially when a lot of good episodes fit that criteria.

 

[Trekkin]

A Fundamentalist mindset can exist in any ideology including a science-fiction franchise.

That's nice. Nothing to do with anything though.

It relates to nothing in the version of the post that's quoted, nor the edited version where I tried to extrapolate on what I meant.

If you can accept the subjective nature of this, and you're fine with people having their own personal continuity then I am sure at some level you can have some empathy why people do this...then why would it be ridiculous?

I can accept that everyone has different taste in food. I'm fine with people hating brussel sprouts. I can empathise with the urge to claim that, in their personal inner-world, sprouts don't actually count as an edible food.

Doesn't mean I wouldn't think such a reaction is ridiculous.

 

[Gojira]

I don't need it to fit. Or need to discard the stuff that doesn't or that I don't like. That just doesn't make sense. I've no love for STV, Voyager and several of the TNG films. But they're still part of the continuity. Excising them seems like a waste of time an effort. Excising the stuff that doesn't fit, even more so. Especially when a lot of good episodes fit that criteria.

Just because you don't need it to fit, doesn't mean everyone has to do it your way. Hats why you projected your hubris onto me.

I don't deny what exists. If an episode is one I feel is good I don't feel the need to excise it. It really doesn't take up much time or energy.

 

[Campe]

If you can accept the subjective nature of this, and you're fine with people having their own personal continuity then I am sure at some level you can have some empathy why people do this...then why would it be ridiculous?

Call it semantics if you have to but I find it to be an arrogant and presumptuous statement to suggest that you are so important to have your own personal continuity. That's why I suggest it's entitlement.

Maybe I need to get over it. I'm big enough to admit that. But I'm sick and tired of people who think they know better than the people who produce this stuff, good or bad, like it or hate it, what is Star Trek. You don't get paid to make Star Trek. I don't get paid to make Star Trek. We all have our thoughts on the Star Trek that we like. That's fine. But at the end of the day there are 726 episodes (with at least 15 more on the way) and 13 movies (with probably more on the way) and each and everyone of them is in the continuity known as Star Trek. Not an episode or movie less.

Just my $0.02. Like it or leave it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Just because you don't need it to fit, doesn't mean everyone has to do it your way. Hats why you projected your hubris onto me.

I don't deny what exists. If an episode is one I feel is good I don't feel the need to excise it. It really doesn't take up much time or energy.

It's not hubris, I'm just trying to understand the mindset.

 

[Gojira]

That's nice. Nothing to do with anything though.

It relates to nothing in the version of the post that's quoted, nor the edited version where I tried to extrapolate on what I meant.



I can accept that everyone has different taste. I'm fine with people hating brussel sprouts. I can empathise with the urge to throw sprouts on the floor in a disgusted rage.

Doesn't mean I don't think it's ridiculous.

When I was accused of a sense of entitlement and hubris and people telling me I cannot have a personal continuity that sounds like fundamentalism to me.

 

[Nerys Myk]

When I was accused of a sense of entitlement and hubris and people telling me I cannot have a personal continuity that sounds like fundamentalism to me.

Nah, we just find the idea silly and the term comes across as fan entitlement.

 

[Tarek71]

The only difference between "personal continuity" and showrunner reboots, reimaginations and retcons is job title. When someone with a preferred continuity gets hired to be a showrunner or write a movie, they can finally enact their long cherished version of the continuity. Retconning the bits that they never thought fit well, and/or selectively reimagine and reboot what they didn't like. No sense telling fans they aren't allowed to do it just because they don't have the job title to enact it on screen.

 

[Trekkin]

When I was accused of a sense of entitlement and hubris and people telling me I cannot have a personal continuity that sounds like fundamentalism to me.

That...doesn't sound like fundamentalism. At all. In anyone's personal continuity.

And who said you weren't allowed?

The only difference between "personal continuity" and showrunner reboots, reimaginations and retcons is job title. When someone with a preferred continuity gets hired to be a showrunner or write a movie, they can finally enact their long cherished version of the continuity. Retconning the bits that they never thought fit well, and/or selectively reimagine and reboot what they didn't like. No sense telling fans they aren't allowed to do it just because they don't have the job title to enact it on screen.

Even though it wasn't an argument I made, that didn't really help the 'hubris' and 'entitlement' accusations. The 'only difference' indeed.

Also, note: 'continuity' when it's official. When it becomes 'official', it's no longer 'personal.' Hence the 'personal continuity' oxymoron.

 

[Gojira]

It's not hubris, I'm just trying to understand the mindset.

One of my professional works has been that of an Historian. I like to think of Star Trek a history of the future. Since as an Historian I have needed to weave through much conflicting information to arrive at a cohesive narrative. So I like to do that with Trek. It's fun.

Plus there are somethings I just think they did that was unnecessary. For example, as I previously mentioned, I accepted without a problem the change in the look of the Klingons from TOS to later shows and movies. I understood that in TOS they couldn't afford to make them look like they wanted them to look. So for years I just used my imagination and believed they always looked like they do now. I never needed or wanted an in Universe explanation and the explanation that was given is pretty silly to me so I just ignore it.

There really isn't that much I do ignore in Trek. Not a big fan of ENT and DS9 so I just accept those episodes I have liked. The rest I'm pretty fine with and if there are contradictions I use my imagination and thinking to resolve it.

I started all of this to simply say that because ENT JJTrek and Disc look so similar I like to think of them as being in the same universe. Since this is all fictional in the end what does it matter for none of its real and it is supposed to be fun!

 

[fireproof78]

Nah, we just find the idea silly and the term comes across as fan entitlement.

"Starship Troopers"

I am not making fun of you personally. I was heaping scorn on an inexcusably silly idea — a practice I shall always follow.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The only difference between "personal continuity" and showrunner reboots, reimaginations and retcons is job title. When someone with a preferred continuity gets hired to be a showrunner or write a movie, they can finally enact their long cherished version of the continuity. Retconning the bits that they never thought fit well, and/or selectively reimagine and reboot what they didn't like. No sense telling fans they aren't allowed to do it just because they don't have the job title to enact it on screen.

How many have actually done that? I believe it was comics writer Len Wein who said, "The first story you would tell as a fan should be the last story you'd tell as a professional."

 

[Tarek71]

Nah, we just find the idea silly and the term comes across as fan entitlement.

Sounds like creativity to me! Well done, personal continuity-ists! That's how everything from new styles of art and music to new iterations of stories come about. Think outside the box. Explore other possibilities. Retcon and reimagine the things that might subsequently contradict it.

 

[fireproof78]

How many have actually done that?

I was curious too, as many times new showrunners still have "a boss" that asks them to abide by parameters of the show. One need only read some of the "Star Trek" writers encounter with the "Roddenberry Box" in early TNG to realize that thinking "outside the box" could result in some interesting discussions and/or edits.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Sounds like creativity to me! Well done, personal continuity-ists! That's how everything from new styles of art and music to new iterations of stories come about. Think outside the box. Explore other possibilities. Retcon and reimagine the things that might subsequently contradict it.

That's different than having a "personal continuity". Ignoring stuff isn't creativity or making something new.

 

[Gojira]

Call it semantics if you have to but I find it to be an arrogant and presumptuous statement to suggest that you are so important to have your own personal continuity. That's why I suggest it's entitlement.

Maybe I need to get over it. I'm big enough to admit that. But I'm sick and tired of people who think they know better than the people who produce this stuff, good or bad, like it or hate it, what is Star Trek. You don't get paid to make Star Trek. I don't get paid to make Star Trek. We all have our thoughts on the Star Trek that we like. That's fine. But at the end of the day there are 726 episodes (with at least 15 more on the way) and 13 movies (with probably more on the way) and each and everyone of them is in the continuity known as Star Trek. Not an episode or movie less.

Just my $0.02. Like it or leave it.

I Am a Cognitive Behavioral Therapist and it's called a mind reading error when you imply my motives for having my own way of viewing the events of Trek is because you think I am being errogant or I have an inflated sense of importance. You're reading something into me that I am not doing.

My having my own little continuity isn't a grand condemnation toward those that make Trek or I think I know better. All I am simply doing is finding some way to fit some contradictions or inconsistencies in a way that makes sense to me.

 

[Tarek71]

That's different than having a "personal continuity". Ignoring stuff isn't creativity or making something new.

Of course it is. That's exactly what creativity can involve. Changing, discarding, retconning, reimagining are all creative acts, and involve at least altering, if not entirely shit canning, what came before. Not all that is new is good. Reboots can suck. But so can continuations. But change and creativity can definitely go hand and hand.