'White genocide in space': Racist "fans" seething at racial diversity in Discovery...

[Trekkin]

This. Comfort is more priority, than consideration of the consequences long term. It's a matter of personal responsibility that is not always followed through upon.

Also, possibly the discomfort that comes from looking at the mistreated and vulnerable populations makes it easier to ignore. Again, personal comfort is much easier. Hash tags and memes, and the like.

Now, on the other side, castigating whole categories of people for inaction is not going to motivate change. Isn't that what Christians are often accused of guilting people to be good? So, it is helpful for problems to be pointed out, and ask for help, from all groups.

Who is castigating?

Fact has always been, absteiners give up their voice. They don't have to do anything, but the consequence is that they're simply non-entities.

Religions in the West run into trouble, because participation is meant to be voluntary and they have representative leadership. Unless the followers and other leaders protest or act, there's the assumption that leadership, you know...represents them.

That, and its also heavily involved in politics. Which has the same 'representative' issue.

For better or for worse: Christianity itself wouldn't exist if everyone had just stuck around, and passively wished the Jewish faith would just magically line up with their contradicting values. .

 

[fireproof78]

If a person is uncomfortable with seeing another group of people then there is something deeply wrong with them.

Why?

Actually it makes them easier to erase from society, which is their goal. If a group isn't visible, they can't fight for rights and they disappear entirely from society. Post WWI Germany was possibly more tolerant of LGBTQ people than modern America, that came to a horrifying end.

I think its a mix of different

That is pointing out a problem and asking for help. You're allowing your religion to be taken over by bigots, racists and the worst kind of monster. They're hurting vulnerable groups and claiming it's in the name of religious liberty. But you think it's fine to sit back and let them do it, that's fine. It's your choice in the end and I won't stop you. But sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending your religion isn't being corrupted won't solve anything. They're just going to drag you down with them. Silence equals approval to the ones doing the damage.

Also since when are Christians accused of guilting people into being good? They're accused of guilting people into their religion.

Um, I've heard Christians being accused of guilting people, since, oh, I was 16.

Please don't presume that I'm silent. I'm merely observing different attitudes that I have encountered, and different explanations I have heard.

 

[Trekkin]

Why?

Because the world is full of different groups of people, it's getting bigger and more diverse every day, and they're gonna have trouble functioning within it.

 

[fireproof78]

Because the world is full of different groups of people, is getting bigger and more diverse every day, and they're gonna have trouble functioning within it.

So, it can't make others uncomfortable? Discomfort doesn't equal hate, I hope that is clear.

I'm uncomfortable with lots of things, doesn't mean I avoid them, or hate them. It just means it makes me uncomfortable. There is a difference.

 

[Refuge]

It is since you could have stopped it.


If you don't want people to be scared or hurt then it is your duty as a human being to do everything possible to prevent it.

You are too judgmental. The last time I stood up for a woman being downgraded I was lucky to not escape without injury myself. Could have stopped it my arse. Well did stop it but how on earth is that going to prevent the person from being a control freak in the first place. I don't care how bitter you are you don't have the right to say it is my fault that someone else is an abuser.

 

[Trekkin]

So, it can't make others uncomfortable? Discomfort doesn't equal hate, I hope that is clear.

I'm uncomfortable with lots of things, doesn't mean I avoid them, or hate them. It just means it makes me uncomfortable. There is a difference.

We're not talking about things. We're talking about people.

Temporary discomfort with the unfamiliar? Eh. Not exactly something to take pride in, but normal enough.

Discomfort that lasts, even though there's no rational reason for it to do so? That's a phobia.

And they're generally considered to be 'something wrong.' As in, we go see doctors about it.

 

[Refuge]

I didn't mean to specifically pass judgement by what I said (although I have to admit that I generally do), I was just trying to point out how things work, and the truth is that the damage is made worse (there will always be the minority doing the damage regardless) by the majority who vote in favour of it. These days, particularly in the UK and US, people seem to prioritise their own comfort (or at least what they believe to be for their own comfort) at the expense of the safety of societies most mistreated and/or vulnerable.

People will always put their own priorities and family welfare first. It is just the way it is.

 

[Trekkin]

People will always put their own priorities and family welfare first. It is just the way it is.

And their 'priorities' can be 'other people first.' Variety is how the concept of 'personal priorities' work.

Stop projecting your more self centred approach onto everyone else. Its a fucking insult to people who's have selflessly given up everything for complete strangers.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Why?

Because we live in a society with different kinds of people. Someone who can't handle that is going to find life extremely difficult.

I think its a mix of different

Different what?

Um, I've heard Christians being accused of guilting people, since, oh, I was 16.

Weird, I was raised Southern Baptist and never heard that.

Please don't presume that I'm silent. I'm merely observing different attitudes that I have encountered, and different explanations I have heard.

Then why defend it?

You are too judgmental. The last time I stood up for a woman being downgraded I was lucky to not escape without injury myself. Could have stopped it my arse. Well did stop it but how on earth is that going to prevent the person from being a control freak in the first place. I don't care how bitter you are you don't have the right to say it is my fault that someone else is an abuser.

I'm not talking about physical attack. I'm talking about Christianity's apparent war on LGBTQ people. If you find my attitude about that "judgemental" it's for very good reason. It deserves nothing but the harshest judgement.

 

[Tuskin38]

I'm talking about Christianity's apparent war on LGBTQ people.

Now you're generalizing, not all Christians or churches are against LGBTQ people.

 

[Trekkin]

I'm not talking about physical attack. I'm talking about Christianity's apparent war on LGBTQ people. If you find my attitude about that "judgemental" it's for very good reason. It deserves nothing but the harshest judgement.

She admitted that she did stop the attack. Her reason for why it was 'useless' was that the guy was abusive, and she couldn't stop possible future ones.

Of course, that still meant the options were between:
a) Help intervenes - possibly getting walloped later
b) Help doesn't intervene - possibly getting walloped later, and definitely getting walloped now.

Now you're generalizing, not all Christians or churches are against LGBTQ people.

Christians vs 'Christianity.'

The terms are not interchangeable. AP used the latter.

 

[Borgminister]

Now you're generalizing, not all Christians or churches are against LGBTQ people.

The folks with their little hands on the levers of power are though.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Now you're generalizing, not all Christians or churches are against LGBTQ people.

Reading comprehension is your friend. Christianity does not mean all Christians. The leaders and all with positions of power are doing everything they can to harm LGBTQ people.

She admitted that she did stop the attack. Her reason for why it was 'useless' was that the guy was abusive, and she couldn't stop possible future ones.

Of course, that still meant the options were between:
a) Help intervenes - possibly getting walloped later
b) Help doesn't intervene - possibly getting walloped later, and definitely getting walloped now.

Again I wasn't talking about physical attack. I thought that was clear in my post.

 

[Trekkin]

I was turning the example into an analogy.

Maybe you can only help a person once. Maybe that's not the pebble that starts a landslide.

But one little thing, still achieves more than just 'minding yourself.'

 

[fireproof78]

Because we live in a society with different kinds of people. Someone who can't handle that is going to find life extremely difficult.

And learning is an uncomfortable process. I may be uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean I'm not learning. But, guess what? I don't have experience with all kinds of different people, so it's a learning process for me and for the people I work with and interact with on a daily basis.

Different what?

Emotions and reactions. At least, I've seen a variety in response to such challenges.

Weird, I was raised Southern Baptist and never heard that.

Glad you didn't. A friend of mine was nearly kicked out of a church for her challenging the leadership over the guilting that was used.

Then why defend it?

One, I'm not defending it, at least not trying too, and I'm probably doing a piss poor job it, but I'm trying to explain and understand it.

Secondly, the broad strokes against Christians seems excessive to me. Not every conservative Christian hates LGBTQ+ or wants them dead. I know-I'm one of them, and I go to a church with several.
ETA:

Reading comprehension is your friend. Christianity does not mean all Christians. The leaders and all with positions of power are doing everything they can to harm LGBTQ people.

It is not a clear as I think you are intending, but I appreciate the clarification.

Secondly, not every Christian leader is against LGBTQ+ population. Pope Francis being a prime example.

We're not talking about things. We're talking about people.

Temporary discomfort with the unfamiliar? Eh. Not exactly something to take pride in, but normal enough.

Discomfort that lasts, even though there's no rational reason for it to do so? That's a phobia.

And they're generally considered to be 'something wrong.' As in, we go see doctors about it.

Then perhaps I need to see a doctor. I still get uncomfortable in social situations and I'm 33 years old. I'm still learning new things every day at my work with clients and that makes me uncomfortable.

Maybe it's a bunch of little temporary discomforts, but guess what? I still feel uncomfortable. I still try and I still learn. That's all I can do.

ETA: Was right about Pope Francis, at least to some degree:

PI am glad that we are talking about ‘homosexual people’ because before all else comes the individual person, in his wholeness and dignity. “On that occasion I said this: If a person is gay and seeks out the Lord and is willing, who am I to judge that person?”

 

[Refuge]

And their 'priorities' can be 'other people first.' Variety is how the concept of 'personal priorities' work.

They can be but they are not always. Welcome to the real world.

 

[fireproof78]

They can be but they are not always. Welcome to the real world.

No reason to be snarky.

 

[Refuge]

Now you're generalizing, not all Christians or churches are against LGBTQ people.

And everything is not all about LGBTQ people. Am I the only one getting bored with the whining??

 

[Trekkin]

Hmmm.

They can be but they are not always. Welcome to the real world.

vs

People will always put their own priorities and family welfare first. It is just the way it is.

I love when people try to disguise bald faced backtracking, as a 'gotcha' moment.

And lie about the content of the posts they quote.

And everything is not all about LGBTQ people. Am I the only one getting bored with the whining??

If only the title of the thread had declared it was going to be about bigotry. Then you might have avoided it!

And whining about being bored? Are you five-years-old? If it's so bad, go occupy yourself like a big girl.

 

[fireproof78]

If only the title of the thread had declared it was going to be about bigotry. Then you might have avoided it!