The New Klingons

[dahj]

any inconsistencies are ignored

According to canon, Klingons are a race that can live to be 200 years old, yet what they do with that lifespan is that they go off to battle when they're 8 years old to die glorious deaths and that society somehow manages to function.

And it's how they change their look that people don't buy...

 

[BillJ]

According to canon, Klingons are a race that can live to be 200 years old, yet what they do with that lifespan is that they go off to battle when they're 8 years old to die glorious deaths and that society somehow manages to function.

And it's how they change their look that people don't buy...

Star Trek is pretty simplistic. It is like a sci-fi pop-up book.

 

[fireproof78]

Star Trek is pretty simplistic. It is like a sci-fi pop-up book.

That's the best kind of book and now I have to search a Star Trek pop up book:

Hey, they do exist.

 

[Tarek71]

Depending on the episode, I still am resistant to including TNG in the same world as TOS.

Just like TMP?

No, as TMP was set in the future vs. TOS. So the uniforms were changed at a date ahead of the TOS. The Klingons were changed, and that's fine. I had no trouble with that, especially given that a more alien appearance had to do with practical and budget considerations. That isn't the case here. The new Klingon look would be no cheaper, so there is no practical consideration as there was with TOS vs. TMP. This is just the new creative team saying it would be fun and interesting to reimagine some of the aliens.

Later an (unnecessary IMO) in-story explanation was given in ENT. That's fine. And one would expect a prime universe show set in the 2250s to be consistent with that. But this isn't the prime universe, it's a reimagination, so it doesn't matter. They could have decided that Vulcans had green skin, horns and mohawks instead of Roman haircuts and mop tops, and that would be their choice too. Its a reboot.

 

[fireproof78]

No, as TMP was set in the future vs. TOS. So the uniforms were changed at a date ahead of the TOS. The Klingons were changed, and that's fine. I had no trouble with that, especially given that a more alien appearance had to do with practical and budget considerations. That isn't the case here. The new Klingon look would be no cheaper, so there is no practical consideration as there was with TOS vs. TMP. This is just the new creative team saying it would be fun and interesting to reimagine some of the aliens.

Later an (unnecessary IMO) in-story explanation was given in ENT. That's fine. And one would expect a prime universe show set in the 2250s to be consistent with that. But this isn't the prime universe, it's a reimagination, so it doesn't matter. They could have decided that Vulcans had green skin, horns and mohawks instead of Roman haircuts and mop tops, and that would be their choice too. Its a reboot.

And the uniform change between TMP and TWOK? Starfleet seems to enjoy costume changes, especially ones that occur rather quickly or have multiple uniforms in service at once.

As for the Klingons, since there is no context to know who these Klingons are in relationship to the rest of the Empire, there may well be an explanation for their appearance. We simply don't have enough information.

 

[cultcross]

No, as TMP was set in the future vs. TOS. So the uniforms were changed at a date ahead of the TOS.

They changed a lot more than uniforms in TMP. The Enterprise was completely changed, the interiors are totally different sets, the whole look of the Federation changed, the storytelling changed, pretty much everything except the names of the characters and the ship changed dramatically between TOS and TMP. If that's realistic, DSC->TOS is realistic. In my eye, both are re-imaginings.

 

[Tarek71]

They changed a lot more than uniforms in TMP. The Enterprise was completely changed, the interiors are totally different sets, the whole look of the Federation changed, the storytelling changed, pretty much everything except the names of the characters and the ship changed dramatically between TOS and TMP. If that's realistic, DSC->TOS is realistic. In my eye, both are re-imaginings.

I didn't say only the uniforms changed. Only that this is not the same as the TOS to TMP change, since this TMP was forward in time from TOS. This new team just decided not to use the uniforms from The Cage. And the same goes for the ship in TMP. It's forward in time. In fact it is very clear in story and dialogue that this is "an almost totally new Enterprise". They start the story with the ship going through a re-fit. It figures very prominently in the film. They therefore go to great lengths to explicitly and repeatedly cover that "yes, the ship is different, updated and more advanced due to this refit that we spend considerable screen time telling you about."

There is no reason to think TMP represents in any sense a new timeline. With what was changed, there are practical, technical, production point of view reasons for, not a single one of which applies to DSC.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

TMP's relationship to TOS was like "You'll believe a starship can go to warp," much like 1978's Superman's relationship to the comic books was defined by the tagline "You'll believe a man can fly." The entire universe in Star Trek was not only fleshed out, it was presented in a hyper-realistic mode that walked in Stanley Kubrick's footsteps. The long passages of following the spaceships in slow graceful motion, rendered by state-of-the-art VFX, while simply "jamming" to orchestral music (Klingons, Epsilon IX, orbital office complex, drydock, launch, Vulcan shuttle, V'ger, etc.) were unquestionably fashioned in the mold of 2001. This was Star Trek's one and only stab at taking itself completely seriously. This was Star Trek writ large on the big screen as a major motion picture event of epic proportions. That was a re-imagining of TOS, that was re-imagined again in TWOK. TMP is a one-off in that respect in the TOS film series.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

TMP's relationship to TOS was like "You'll believe a starship can go to warp," much like 1978's Superman's relationship to the comic books was defined by the tagline "You'll believe a man can fly." The entire universe in Star Trek was not only fleshed out, it was presented in a hyper-realistic mode that walked in Stanley Kubrick's footsteps. The long passages of following the spaceships in slow graceful motion, rendered by state-of-the-art VFX, while simply "jamming" to orchestral music (Klingons, Epsilon IX, orbital office complex, drydock, launch, Vulcan shuttle, V'ger, etc.) were unquestionably fashioned in the mold of 2001. This was Star Trek's one and only stab at taking itself completely seriously. This was Star Trek writ large on the big screen as a major motion picture event of epic proportions. That was a re-imagining of TOS, that was re-imagined again in TWOK. TMP is a one-off in that respect in the TOS film series.

Yeah, when you think about it, other than INS, none of the Trek films bear much resemblance to the shows. None of them. They're a different medium and have very different storytelling, pacing, budgets, and tones.

EDIT: And the reason we got radically different Klingons in TMP than what we saw in TOS is precisely because they had a huge budget.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Hey, look, the poll is tied for the moment, 66-66!

 

[{ Emilia }]

Changed my vote now. Hail, Discordia!

 

[fireproof78]

I didn't say only the uniforms changed. Only that this is not the same as the TOS to TMP change, since this TMP was forward in time from TOS. This new team just decided not to use the uniforms from The Cage. And the same goes for the ship in TMP. It's forward in time. In fact it is very clear in story and dialogue that this is "an almost totally new Enterprise". They start the story with the ship going through a re-fit. It figures very prominently in the film. They therefore go to great lengths to explicitly and repeatedly cover that "yes, the ship is different, updated and more advanced due to this refit that we spend considerable screen time telling you about."

There is no reason to think TMP represents in any sense a new timeline. With what was changed, there are practical, technical, production point of view reasons for, not a single one of which applies to DSC.

Yes, there are technical, practical and production points of view that apply to DSC. We may not be able to know to all of them at the moment, but that doesn't meant there are not technical considerations in this production.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

Changed my vote now. Hail, Discordia!

I did too. I've been a Doctor Who fan since the Pertwee days. The different races are always undergoing some sort of change. In the last ten years alone has given us very different versions of the Daleks, Cybermen, Silurians, Sontarans, and so on. For me to get my knickers in a twist over yet another rethink of the Klingons is rather hypocritical.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Aw...c'mon...knicker twisting is half the fun of being a Trek fan, months prior to the release of a new product in the franchise!

 

[BillJ]

69-65!

This means the new Klingons are approved of for all-time, in perpetuity!

 

[ChristopherPike]

It's Brexit, all over again.

 

[{ Emilia }]

It's Brexit, all over again.

You think people don't know what they're voting for in this poll?

 

[ChristopherPike]

You think people don't know what they're voting for in this poll?

I was thinking more of the only slight margin in favour. But now that you mention it, until we see the end result in action...

 

[cultcross]

since this TMP was forward in time from TOS.

By just three in-universe years - and almost every visual and technological aspect of Starfleet and the Klingons had changed. That's a very rapid pace of change!

 

[dahj]

It's Brexit, all over again.

You think people don't know what they're voting for in this poll?

I understand if I vote NO, 350 million pounds will go to doctors to perform facial reconstruction surgery on these Klingons, right?